Breaking Cancer Stigma at Work: Gina Jacobson’s Inspiring Journey and Mission || EP. 187

[00:00:00] When you hear the word cancer, it's one of those things that might take your breath away. Cancer is scary, confusing, and something that impacts all of us, whether you have had cancer or have cancer or have a family member who's been impacted by cancer or a friend. It's something that impacts all of us. And I'm speaking to Gina Jacobson today. She is somebody who is a cancer survivor.

[00:00:29] She's also committed to the Working with Cancer Pledge, which is a pledge that companies can take to actually provide the resources and environment so that people who are dealing with cancer as employees have the space and grace, quite frankly, to deal with it. Cancer comes with stigma.

[00:00:50] Um, and one of those things that might surprise you, but if you are someone or have a family member with cancer in the workplace, that can come with things that people don't know how to talk to you anymore, or it might feel, um, you know, just not supported in a way that you might want. So Gina Jacobson on this Inspiring Women conversation, I had the pleasure of speaking with her at TransKarence Voyages Conference.

[00:01:16] She talks about her own cancer journey and the Working with Cancer Pledge. And I think you're going to be as inspired as I was speaking with Gina. The truth is once you build the muscle for supporting somebody with cancer, that muscle exists for any other terrible thing that somebody might be experiencing. Um, death, um, death, divorce, infertility.

[00:01:48] This is Inspiring Women. I'm Lori McGraw and I'm speaking with Gina Jacobson and she is the Program Director for Working with Cancer. Gina, thank you so much for being on Inspiring Women. Thank you for having me. It has been a long day, right? I mean, we have been like, can we just say that we've been like all day since eight o'clock this morning and like learning together. We're at, we're here in Scottsdale. We're at the TransKarence Voyages Conference, the inaugural conference. But we wanted to get in just a couple minutes to talk about your work, Gina.

[00:02:18] So thank you for doing it. I think we're both like excited for the next. Absolutely. And you know, a long day, but so much inspiring. Jotting down the headlines throughout the day. Oh, that's so true. Oh, that's so true. So, Gina, let's start with Working with Cancer. Let's talk about your initiative. What is it?

[00:02:35] Working with Cancer initiative is the creation of our CEO who had a cancer diagnosis and was really thanked and celebrated for being transparent and realized how much stigma existed for people who were working with cancer. Sure. And decided when he was well, he would do something about that.

[00:02:55] It started as an advertising campaign. And since then, our focus has really become helping organizations to drive confidence among their employees that they really have their back, that they're creating a supportive and recovery forward workplace. Well, that speaks to me. I mean, first of all, cancer is a big word.

[00:03:15] It's a scary word. And everybody, whether you are someone with cancer, a survivor of cancer, or a family member of someone who had cancer, what is your relationship to cancer? I had my own cancer. I was in the middle of the biggest new business pitch of my life, starting to feel a little run down at two o'clock in the morning, which was early for me. Anybody? Early for anyone, Gina?

[00:03:44] You know, I think I had great stamina in the day. And I was laughing to my CEO about how suddenly my appetite was so odd, all I wanted to eat was potato. Okay. And she said, you know, Gina, that is not normal. You really need to see a doctor. And a few months later, I got myself in and was diagnosed with stage four colon cancer.

[00:04:07] By the time I got in, about 80% of my liver was covered in the colon cancer. And I had a very serious prognosis, a year or two to live. And I think what was most striking looking back is how strongly I felt, despite the fact that everyone was saying, you really only have another year or two, how important it was for me to keep working through that experience. Gina, how is your health?

[00:04:34] Right now, I am two and a half years clear. So feeling good and honestly feeling changed and better for the experience. It was a brutal journey. But I am so much happier today. I don't know that I would take it back even if I could.

[00:04:53] Wow. That's an incredible statement. Gina, let's talk about the stigma that you mentioned, because I think that many people can understand when we hear the word cancer, we are afraid of it. It's like, it's almost like it's catchy and I don't want to be around it. We don't know what to say. When somebody tells us that they have cancer, they've recently been diagnosed with cancer. It's a serious cancer.

[00:05:19] So what was your experience and then what is the work that you're trying to do? Absolutely. I mean, I think you're exactly right. It strikes fear immediately into the listener's heart.

[00:05:31] It means something. People react to it viscerally. And I don't know that there's another space where there is such a significant gap in between the positive intentions people have and the knowledge of what to actually do about it. And the gap is where things get messy because people don't know what to say and so they don't say anything.

[00:05:57] They don't know what to do and they do the wrong thing. People assume that they know what you need and say things that are well intended, like you shouldn't have to worry about work or I didn't copy you on that email. I didn't invite you to the meeting. You shouldn't have to worry about this.

[00:06:16] And those can be really painfully experienced for somebody who's already going through a loss, a second loss of the identity they had through work. The identity of who you are. And suddenly, at least just what I know from other people experiences, what I know from science and research,

[00:06:38] is that one of the most devastating things is to have a devastating diagnosis and then you are and become the disease. You are no longer the person with agency and authority that you had. So that difference, that gap that you're talking about, what are some of the things that working with cancer, the initiative, what do you do to help close that gap? I mean, I remember when we first launched, we didn't really know exactly what we needed to do.

[00:07:06] We set off in a bunch of different ways and we heard resoundingly from people at our own organization. What I really need you to do is talk with my manager. I need people to understand what it is like. And so I think that's what I really encourage organizations who are taking a step forward. It's not all about which benefits or which services, but it's about creating an environment where folks actually understand what it's like

[00:07:35] and feel confident that they know what to say when there's nothing to say. So we really focus a lot on creating that understanding. I will sometimes encourage people to do a panel discussion if they have participants. And something as simple as manager training. Very, very light lift for an organization to ask their employees to spend an hour.

[00:07:59] And the truth is once you build the muscle for supporting somebody with cancer, that muscle exists for any other terrible thing that somebody might be experiencing. Death, divorce, infertility. We will all be struck by one of life's calamities. And so you start to create that empathy, organizational empathy that can manifest in lots of situations. Well, when we talk about cancer, we also know when it comes to the workforce.

[00:08:29] So people ages 20 to 50, 60, we're seeing an unusual. And recently, the American Cancer Society, you know this, but they have put forward that there are 13 different categories of cancer where the rates are increasing in the actual ages of the workforce in really concerning ways. So it is prevalent. It's more prevalent than perhaps it was just even five years ago.

[00:08:55] If we think about just, you know, what that means to a workforce, one of the things, again, that I learned, which was surprising to me, is that people who are diagnosed with cancer, there are many of them that respond with the desire to continue working, to continue, not as if nothing has happened or nothing is different, not denial, but actually just working. So what is that all about? That was your experience. It absolutely was.

[00:09:22] And I heard an oncologist say the number one question people ask after diagnosis is, will I live? And the number two question is, can I work? So it's very, very common. More than 80% of people in the U.S. choose to work through cancer. They may not work, to your point, in the same way. They may take off intermittently for treatment, for surgery, take on reduced hours. And I think it's really important for organizations to be able to add that kind of flexibility

[00:09:51] into somebody flexing roles or responsibilities up or down, job share. I think the more we move into a gig economy, the easier that may become. And so it's been really interesting to see. Different organizations can respond to it in different ways. But really, across the board, there are accommodations that almost any organization can put in place to make it easier for somebody who's going through something like that.

[00:10:21] Well, so for Gina, for you, okay, who are working in both this initiative as a cancer survivor, and so this is deeply personal to you. Why do you still do it? Why are you still focused on this? I mean, you beat cancer. You're living a healthy life. Why don't you just want to walk away from it? You're really putting a lot into this. You know, it's hard not to feel that I, my husband likes to say, you might not have been born for this, but you almost died for it. Wow. Okay.

[00:10:51] A creative director, if ever there was one. You know, before, in my life before cancer, I was, I worked in new business. I worked in the advertising agency, and I was always talking with new businesses about, you know, the potential for something that could be better. What could be? You know, if you took us as an agency, we would grow your sales. We would improve perception, whatever it might be. I loved to show organizations the potential when they couldn't see it themselves.

[00:11:19] And now I had a cancer experience, and suddenly what I'm pitching is the most important pitch of my life. And I get to do it in this enormously generous situation where I have a corporate sponsor I don't have to fundraise. And everything that I create in terms of resources for pledging companies, I get to give away for free.

[00:11:47] So it's really such an incredible experience to go to an organization and say, I want you to be able to support your people. And here is a gift that I offer to you to make it easier for you to do that. Gina, if you could just close us out with, in terms of the work that you're doing, and you've talked about management training, you've talked about other things, what's your vision? What do you want people to know about working with Cancer Initiative that they can either

[00:12:15] do themselves or do within their companies? I think the thing we're really focused on the most now is the opportunity to create awareness and understanding, even of what already exists. I have never talked to a benefit leader who feels that it's not a major pain point for an organization to understand what they're all providing.

[00:12:39] My goal is that people know from the very point of diagnosis that they work for a supportive company, that at that most scary moment, they can say, at least work has my back. And so I'm constantly looking at what can I do to drive confidence before the diagnosis to make the whole journey just a little less scary. Well, what I hear in that is taking something that is one of the most vulnerable moments.

[00:13:09] And probably many of them for either a person or a family member of someone who is going through it and giving them a level of power, which has been stripped away. And it's just encouraging to hear it. It's really powerful to know that this work is being done. And I really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. I've been speaking with Gina Jacobson. And Gina, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:13:36] This has been an episode of Inspiring Women with Lori McGraw. Please subscribe, rate and review. We are produced at Executive Podcast Solutions. More episodes can be found on inspiringwomen.show. I am Lori McGraw, and thank you for listening.