Domestic Violence and Breaking the Cycle with Rebecca Darr || EP. 174

[00:00:00] They can come through emergency, in a crisis, fleeing a situation, a domestic violence situation, and we can take men, women, children of all ages, and we get them safely to where they need to be. And then we provide them long term support to get that stability that they need. And when we do that, we have 100% success rate. No one goes back to the abusive individual they left, and no one goes forward to a new unhealthy relationship.

[00:00:28] And for me, personally, that's important for a lot of reasons.

[00:00:33] That's incredible. That's just incredible.

[00:00:34] The team does amazing work. But that two years gives the family time to really regain their financial footing. When people think of domestic violence, they often think of the hitting, which is obviously a part of the abuse, the physical assaults.

[00:00:50] But 99% of the individuals that come to us from domestic violence situations have experienced financial abuse. And it's the financial abuse that keeps people stuck in those situations. Common sense. If you don't have money to leave, you can't leave.

[00:01:09] And that's intentional on the part of the person who is trying to maintain control over the victim of domestic violence.

[00:01:18] So that is one of the most prevalent forms. And the answer to why doesn't she just leave?

[00:01:23] And we say she because, you know, historically, it's been one in three women.

[00:01:28] More men are coming forward now. But in most cases, it's women who are reporting and coming forward asking for help to get out of this situation.

[00:01:43] This is Inspiring Women, and I'm Lori McGraw. And today I'm speaking with Rebecca Dar.

[00:01:48] She is the CEO of an organization called WINGS, and she is an expert in the area, unfortunately, of domestic violence.

[00:01:59] That is a very real thing. We're going to talk to Rebecca today both about her work at WINGS as well as the area of domestic violence,

[00:02:07] which we all know something about, but probably not as much as we should.

[00:02:12] Rebecca, thank you for being on Inspiring Women.

[00:02:16] Thank you, Lori. It's an honor to be here.

[00:02:18] So let's just dive right into it in terms of talking about WINGS and the work that you do, Rebecca.

[00:02:25] And then I want to talk about you specifically and what you're charged with doing for the problems.

[00:02:30] Maybe tell us a little bit about WINGS.

[00:02:33] So WINGS is the largest domestic violence organization, nonprofit in the state of Illinois.

[00:02:40] We operate two emergency safe houses, one within the city of Chicago and one in the suburbs of Chicago.

[00:02:47] In addition to that, we operate and pay rent on about 175 units of housing.

[00:02:54] So we either own it, we hold the lease on it, or we pay the rent.

[00:02:59] And so we're able to help survivors and their children for up to two years.

[00:03:05] So, and they can come through emergency in a crisis, fleeing a situation, a domestic violence situation.

[00:03:12] And we can take men, women, children of all ages, and we get them safely to where they need to be.

[00:03:19] And then we provide them long-term support to get that stability that they need.

[00:03:24] And when we do that, we have 100% success rate.

[00:03:27] No one goes back to the abusive individual they left, and no one goes forward to a new unhealthy relationship.

[00:03:35] And for me personally, that's important for a lot of reasons.

[00:03:39] That's incredible.

[00:03:40] That's just incredible.

[00:03:41] The team does amazing work.

[00:03:43] But that two years gives the family time to really regain their financial footing.

[00:03:49] When people think of domestic violence, they often think of the hitting, which is obviously a part of the abuse, the physical assaults.

[00:03:57] But 99% of the individuals that come to us from domestic violence situations have experienced financial abuse.

[00:04:07] And it's the financial abuse that keeps people stuck in those situations.

[00:04:12] Common sense.

[00:04:13] If you don't have money to leave, you can't leave.

[00:04:16] And that's intentional on the part of the person who is trying to maintain control over the victim of domestic violence.

[00:04:24] So that is one of the most prevalent forms.

[00:04:27] And the answer to why doesn't she just leave?

[00:04:30] And we say she because historically it's been one in three women.

[00:04:35] More men are coming forward now.

[00:04:37] But in most cases, it's women who are reporting and coming forward asking for help to get out of these situations.

[00:04:45] I wanted to actually dive into sort of like, you know, like I think you're right.

[00:04:49] I mean, people when at least, you know, for me, I think of domestic violence and I think of a stereotype.

[00:04:55] I do think of hitting as sort of like, you know, the key thing that is the demonstration of domestic violence.

[00:05:01] But to prepare to talk to you, I looked it up.

[00:05:04] And so the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence defines domestic violence as the willful intimidation, physical assault, battery, sexual assault, and or other abusive behavior as part of the systemic pattern of power and control perpetrated by one intimate partner against another.

[00:05:25] So I was wondering if you could just sort of like, what does domestic violence actually look like?

[00:05:33] Well, it looks like me and it looks like you.

[00:05:36] There is no one demographic that it looks like.

[00:05:42] Typically, we see people between the ages of 25 and 40, but certainly we have individuals and families that come, you know, in all shapes and sizes.

[00:05:52] So we want people to know, and it happens in every demographic.

[00:05:57] So it doesn't matter if it's an affluent neighborhood or it's in, you know, an impoverished neighborhood.

[00:06:03] It's happening everywhere.

[00:06:05] And we know that because we get those phone calls.

[00:06:08] The National Hotline will tell you that.

[00:06:10] They get those phone calls.

[00:06:11] So when an individual calls the hotline and get referred to a domestic violence program, you know, in the local region where that individual is calling from, there's intake process.

[00:06:24] And typically we'll bring them into a 24-secure safe house shelter.

[00:06:30] And there are shelters around the country for people to go to.

[00:06:34] And the reason for that is the most dangerous time for a survivor of domestic violence is when they're trying to leave.

[00:06:41] And the reason for that is because the individual who's been exerting control over them is losing control.

[00:06:48] So that's why it's not safe to go to a family member's house.

[00:06:52] When you see those news reports where the victim was killed and the family members were killed, the abuser knows, the individual who's abusing knows that's likely where the survivor is going to go.

[00:07:07] And so to have them in a safe 24-hour secure facility where we can then work on getting the orders for protection in place, working with the court systems to make sure that we can get them safe.

[00:07:20] So the first piece is safe.

[00:07:22] The second piece then is getting the, you know, just safety and then sustainability, getting into an apartment.

[00:07:29] And then we still have to deal with the courts and all the stuff that goes with that.

[00:07:33] Before you even get there, how does someone begin to recognize?

[00:07:40] So hitting, it's a very obvious sign that you are in a domestic violent situation.

[00:07:47] But there are other forms, as you just said.

[00:07:49] How does someone recognize that they're in a situation that is, you know, when does it go from unhealthy to violence?

[00:07:58] Is there a, are there signs?

[00:08:00] And are the, do people recognize those signs?

[00:08:03] Are there interventions?

[00:08:05] What, what do you see?

[00:08:07] And I'm sure it's sort of like all of the things, but I just appreciate that.

[00:08:10] Well, what I will tell you is that many people, if they're watching this, will realize that's me.

[00:08:17] Isolation is the biggest one.

[00:08:19] So many times this starts, you know, more subtly with, you know, oh honey, you don't need to go be with your family because you have me.

[00:08:27] And while that sounds sweet and wonderful, it's a, it's a form of control.

[00:08:32] And that, it goes from there to, you know, the, the emotional abuse and the psychological abuse.

[00:08:39] There's a, a term called gaslighting, you know, where the abusive individual will blame their victim.

[00:08:46] Um, you know, if you hadn't done this, I wouldn't have had to hit you.

[00:08:50] You know, the, the whole thing of, well, you didn't have dinner on the table when I got home from work kind of stuff, but it, you know, it's, it's the crazy making of, and then, oh honey, I'm so sorry.

[00:09:00] You know, I didn't mean it.

[00:09:02] It'll never happen again.

[00:09:03] So those are the types of things that cause the, the, the survivor who's stuck in that situation, you know, to think it isn't all bad all the time.

[00:09:12] And if you're having, and if you have kids together, you have children together, you know, there, you still have to, to co-parent after the separation.

[00:09:21] So there's, there's a lot of factors in play.

[00:09:24] Um, and many people, it was when they're watching, you know, uh, a movie, what's the movie that just came out?

[00:09:31] Um, I blanking on the name.

[00:09:33] Um, but the maid, when that movie, that documentary came out, um, a lot of people called, they recognized that that was them.

[00:09:41] They were stuck in a situation and that they would need help.

[00:09:44] Um, and I think that's the key that people often don't realize is that you need organizations like Wings.

[00:09:49] We need more organizations like Wings across the country, um, where many programs are sorely underfunded, um, by the government and, uh, the private sector.

[00:09:59] Um, and so, you know, the more resources we can have for them, then they have the means to get out.

[00:10:05] And, and that is the scariest thing when you're picking up the phone to call for help because you don't know what's going to happen next.

[00:10:12] So can you just describe, so you talked about the success of the program, but, um, how prevalent is it?

[00:10:18] So when it comes in, you said every demographic or whatever, but how prevalent is the domestic violence?

[00:10:25] And is it on the rise?

[00:10:27] Is it on the, you know, is it, you know, evaporating?

[00:10:30] What's actually happening?

[00:10:32] Uh, the statistic, the national statistic that, uh, uh, National Coalition Against Domestic Violence reports is one in three women and now one in four men.

[00:10:43] It's just stunning.

[00:10:44] Those are stunning numbers.

[00:10:46] And it's, um, incredibly prevalent.

[00:10:50] And I will tell you when COVID hit, how worse it became.

[00:10:54] This Illinois statewide hotline, uh, text messaging had just started as a method to reach out for help to the Illinois hotline.

[00:11:02] Their text message, uh, for help increased by 3000%.

[00:11:08] And, uh, the police in Chicago were reporting, were responding to more calls than ever and more severe calls.

[00:11:16] So what we saw during COVID and has not slowed down since, uh, not really over COVID, but since, uh, the inception of COVID is the severity of injuries is worse.

[00:11:28] The psychological abuse is worse.

[00:11:31] Um, but more people are calling because I think they they're recognizing that there is help and that they can call that national hotline and there'll be somebody to direct them to resources to help them get out.

[00:11:42] Cause it's not easy.

[00:11:44] Are there with that level of prevalent prevalence?

[00:11:46] I'm assuming there are levels of gradation of severity in terms of, you know, the, um, the imbalance control in a relationship, in a relationship that would be deemed as domestic violence.

[00:12:00] If there is that type of sort of like wherever you are, I don't know if, I don't know if the language is spectrum or whatever, um, for domestic violence.

[00:12:08] Are there ways that is the answer always get out of that situation?

[00:12:13] Is that the, um, the important thing to do?

[00:12:18] How do you, or how does wings, you know, advise victims?

[00:12:23] I'm using your language that I'm trying to learn as you're, you're telling it to us, um, in terms of how you, uh, help people in those situations.

[00:12:33] So we don't tell people what to do.

[00:12:36] Um, if they reach out for counseling and are still in their situation, but they just want to talk to somebody, there's never any judgment about their decision to, to stay or to go.

[00:12:48] Again, if you don't have money and you don't have access to money, it's a scary proposition to go.

[00:12:56] Um, and you look at the people who come through our safe houses, 50% are walking in with nothing but the clothes on their backs.

[00:13:03] It means they're starting over with absolutely nothing.

[00:13:06] So it is a big, big decision to leave.

[00:13:09] So, and the other piece of it that people often don't think of the individual who's doing the harm can get actually get help.

[00:13:16] It's a learned behavior that can be unlearned.

[00:13:19] Okay.

[00:13:20] There are, there are treatment programs for those who harm across the country and they can call the hotline too.

[00:13:26] And, and ask for resources.

[00:13:28] Um, and, and we have had situations where individuals didn't want to give up on the relationship.

[00:13:35] Um, and there was, there's some really good programs, uh, in Chicago that we refer their significant other, the, the purple person who's causing them harm to seek help.

[00:13:47] And, and learn.

[00:13:47] What are the success rates there?

[00:13:49] Are those promising?

[00:13:50] Those are promising, especially those who go voluntarily, um, where things get stuck in most jurisdictions is whether the courts mandate.

[00:13:59] The treatment program for the person who caused harm or not.

[00:14:04] And, you know, you have, uh, states like California, Colorado, um, Minnesota who have, um, really tight systems and law enforcement works with courts works with treatment providers.

[00:14:17] And, um, their, their programs are 52 weeks in Illinois, it's 26 weeks.

[00:14:22] So the, the longer it is, the more effective it's going to be, but it re it requires that coordination of all those systems, which just doesn't happen in most places.

[00:14:32] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:33] At what point do you, so these, you know, if you're in one of these situations, I can appreciate how, how big the decision is to call a hotline and how dire a situation might be that you're taking that kind of, um, action.

[00:14:48] When do courts get involved?

[00:14:51] When do, when do police, um, have to, like, must respond to something?

[00:14:58] Cause there's the risk, but then there's, I'm sure there's shame.

[00:15:01] I'm sure there's other concern.

[00:15:03] There's often children, you know, who are involved beyond the individual who is a victim.

[00:15:10] So can you shed some light on some of all those other considerations?

[00:15:16] The courts, um, play a big role in that if a judge, and we actually did have this happening in Chicago a couple months ago, where a judge denied an order of protection.

[00:15:28] And, uh, the person who caused harm, the abusive individual got out of Illinois department of corrections and came straight to her apartment to try to kill her.

[00:15:36] What happened was her 11 year old son got in the middle and he ended up being killed.

[00:15:42] Now, if the order of protection had been in place, it may not have saved them, the little boy, but, um, it might have.

[00:15:48] Um, and so it's really important for judges to understand that if a survivor is coming, and I used victim and survivor interchangeably, um, we want them to know that we see them as survivors when they're getting, because they're getting out and we're able to help them get out.

[00:16:05] Um, but if the courts deny those orders for protection, that can be like, or death for someone.

[00:16:11] Um, and again, someone could still come in and violate the order and, and hurt someone.

[00:16:15] Um, we in Illinois, uh, wings was a driving force behind getting legislation passed for judges to be able to mandate that the abuser wear a GPS monitoring bracelet, whereby the survivor then gets notified if the abuser is within a certain distance of them and can get themselves safe.

[00:16:34] And it notifies the police.

[00:16:35] So they're violating their probation and can go to jail.

[00:16:40] So it's, it's innovative things like that, that, that we've tried to put in place and have tried to get that same legislation passed across the country.

[00:16:48] Um, it was, you know, it's something that, that has saved lives.

[00:16:51] I'll bet.

[00:16:53] I'll bet.

[00:16:53] So Rebecca, this is, um, this is serious work.

[00:16:56] This is, um, you know, I can imagine it's story after story.

[00:17:01] And while there's success in terms of helping so many victims and so many survivors, you're also talking about, that's not always the case.

[00:17:10] There are people who are trapped or that, you know, are seeking help who might not be ready to seek all the help that might be available.

[00:17:18] Um, you've been doing this for 10 years at, um, 25 years, 25 years.

[00:17:25] Holy moly.

[00:17:26] Holy moly.

[00:17:28] So this is my 25th anniversary.

[00:17:29] How in the full congratulations on that.

[00:17:32] How in the world did you come into it?

[00:17:34] And why, why 20, 25 years is a long time to be focused on something certainly important, but also pretty heavy in terms of what you're grappling with.

[00:17:46] I tell people that I have the best job in the world.

[00:17:50] And I do because I get to watch my team and I get to meet the individuals that come into our safe house and to see where they are in their life, that point in their life.

[00:18:03] And to see them two, three years later.

[00:18:06] And they're a completely different person.

[00:18:08] And you see the children.

[00:18:10] We have a celebration of courage, which is our graduation program for when they graduate from our transitional housing program.

[00:18:17] And at every single one of those, uh, each of the children gets a certificate or something they've accomplished.

[00:18:24] And it's so affirming to see the junior high and high school kids on the honor roll.

[00:18:29] And more importantly, when you ask the kids to talk about their mom or their dad who has, is graduating, um, what they say is my mom is my hero.

[00:18:41] And, you know, that, that makes it all worth it.

[00:18:44] You know, the day in and the day out of what we have to deal with to raise the money to do this, um, to get government to, to pay attention and to fund more programs and more services.

[00:18:54] So people can get out, um, and just to let people know that, that there is a safety net for you.

[00:19:00] And that there's organizations like wings across the country who are, are here and ready to help.

[00:19:06] Um, and it's important to us because we know, we know you can get to the other side of that journey.

[00:19:11] And what has happened at wings over the course of the 25 years, as we built safe houses and housing is our graduates come back and mentor the people coming into the safe house.

[00:19:23] And when, when one of our graduates, one of our survivors sits at the table and says to someone who's just walked in the door and said, I was there and now I'm here and you'll be here too.

[00:19:34] That's extremely, extremely powerful.

[00:19:37] So our graduates stay with us.

[00:19:39] You know, we joke that once you're part of the wings family, you're always a part of the wings family.

[00:19:44] And they do, we have graduates who have come back and mentored and, uh, for 15 years ever since they graduated 15 years ago.

[00:19:52] And so we launched during COVID a new program called survivor lifeline.

[00:19:57] It's a mentoring program where survivors, uh, who have similar lived experiences are matched up with survivors who are at the beginning of that journey.

[00:20:06] Just having left their abusive situation and they will stay with them for as long as they want.

[00:20:14] And that's a program that we are intending to launch, uh, nationally.

[00:20:18] So we are in the process of doing that.

[00:20:20] Well, that is amazing.

[00:20:22] If you think about sort of like what you've done over those 25 years and you look to the next 25, you know, what, what is possible?

[00:20:31] I mean, I'm just, I would be curious.

[00:20:34] You've got legislation work that you're doing.

[00:20:36] Um, how much, uh, education needs to be done.

[00:20:40] How much does the public play a role in be either being supportive, recognizing when these situations, um, just what do you think about in terms of like solving this problem?

[00:20:53] It really comes down to resources, two things you said, education and resources so that those who harm and those who are being harmed know that there are resources that they can, that they can get help.

[00:21:05] Um, I think that that's the key thing.

[00:21:07] I think the national, uh, coalition does a good job.

[00:21:10] There's a national network to end domestic violence.

[00:21:12] That's getting the word out.

[00:21:14] Certainly each of us doing the work in local regions, get the word out.

[00:21:18] Um, and, and we rely on faith communities.

[00:21:20] That's a huge place where we can, you know, get the word out to people that, you know, and having the, the, the faith communities talk to their constituents about what's appropriate and what's not appropriate.

[00:21:34] And certainly, you know, emotional abuse, physical abuse, financial abuse is never a sexual abuse is never okay.

[00:21:41] And so we just, we want people to know that we want them to reach out for help.

[00:21:45] Um, and just, we need more, more safe houses across the country.

[00:21:50] My latest idea is not to just have a lot of groups have an emergency shelter, but they don't have the housing afterwards.

[00:21:58] And one of the, um, ideas that I've come up with, of course, it's going to take a lot of money is to not just create these emergency shelters, but to create survivorship centers.

[00:22:07] Mm-hmm.

[00:22:08] Where you have the emergency safe house where they're 24 secure.

[00:22:12] But then on the same campus, you have childcare and you have, uh, transitional housing and longer term housing so that they can get all the resources and services they need, um, right in one place.

[00:22:23] And so we're looking at that as a possibility in Chicago and, uh, ultimately in other regions in partnership with, uh, domestic violence programs across the country.

[00:22:34] So in terms of those resources, um, you know, I, I'd love, cause certainly what you're doing in Illinois as the largest, um, you know, the largest organization providing services, um, to people, victims, perpetrators, you know, both sides, um, of the equation.

[00:22:51] Um, that is wonderful.

[00:22:53] I live in Colorado.

[00:22:55] Where, um, where do people go to find resources in the region that they live?

[00:23:02] So you can simply Google domestic violence services and put Boulder, Colorado, and several will pop up.

[00:23:10] Um, certainly you can call the national hotline, uh, state like statewide hotlines are published online.

[00:23:16] People can call their statewide hotline and they'll immediately get hooked up with all kinds of resources.

[00:23:23] Um, we also have, um, friends who are concerned will call the hotline and get advice on how to help a friend without being judgmental.

[00:23:33] Um, that, and that's key.

[00:23:35] You know, we want, we don't want survivors and victims being blamed for the situation they're in.

[00:23:41] Cause it's not their fault.

[00:23:43] Well, Rebecca, this has been, um, you know, really an incredible conversations, um, inspiring women conversation.

[00:23:51] And the work that you're doing is absolutely essential and, um, really important as we close out on this inspiring women episode.

[00:24:00] I just love for you to leave us with sort of like your thoughts.

[00:24:03] What do you want people to know, um, generally broadly about domestic violence and the work that you're doing?

[00:24:11] That there's hope that it's not a hopeless situation.

[00:24:14] I think many people think that it cannot be overcome.

[00:24:18] And what we really do is just look at one family at a time.

[00:24:22] How do we help one family at a time get to where they want to be in their life?

[00:24:26] So taking them from a despairing moment, um, where they think that, that there is no hope and giving them that hope and helping them find their way to happiness and health.

[00:24:38] Well, this has been an incredible inspiring women conversation.

[00:24:42] I have been speaking with Rebecca Dar and Rebecca.

[00:24:44] Thank you so much.

[00:24:46] Thank you, Lori.

[00:24:48] This has been an episode of inspiring women with Lori McGraw.

[00:24:52] Please subscribe rate and review.

[00:24:54] We are produced at executive podcast solutions.

[00:24:57] More episodes can be found on inspiring women.

[00:25:00] Dot show.

[00:25:01] I am Lori McGraw, and thank you for listening.