From Yes to Heck Yes with Leslie Snavely || EP. 181

[00:00:00] The learning of that COVID period, lots of hard things happening in healthcare. Same in our company, we had to flex how we operated to help our customers and our people. All that learning, all that rapid example built my confidence to say yes when asked after.

[00:00:25] And honestly, I remember, why do you want to be the CEO? I never did. So there wasn't a clear, easy answer to that question. And at the end of the day, when I ultimately said I'm interested, which I did, I said it because I knew why.

[00:00:46] I knew I wanted to help. We have 4,200 people that work at CHG. We have over 15,000 clinicians, mostly physicians that we're placing around the world. And I knew that I wanted to do it.

[00:01:01] This is Inspiring Women. And today I am speaking with Leslie Snavely, and she is the CEO of CHG Healthcare, which is the largest physician and clinician staffing organization that there is.

[00:01:21] Leslie has been at CHG for well over a decade now, and she rose through the ranks to assume the mantle as CEO. Leslie, thank you for being on Inspiring Women.

[00:01:36] Laurie, thank you for having me. It's great to get to be here with you.

[00:01:40] All right. Well, let's dive in. So first of all, it is actually unusual for a woman at your level for this organization.

[00:01:51] It's a great organization to sort of like come from within and be promoted to the top position in such a large organization.

[00:02:02] So how'd you make that happen?

[00:02:05] It's a good question. And it's funny because as you're in it, you probably don't feel like it's unusual.

[00:02:09] So it's always interesting to hear from others. So, you know, I first a little bit about my background.

[00:02:16] I've now been 14 and a half years at CHG Healthcare. And I spent, you know, the prior decade doing things that were not in healthcare staffing.

[00:02:26] So this, you know, CHG as a physician, leading physician staffing company, this was my first foray into healthcare, my first foray into staffing and healthcare services.

[00:02:37] Well, good job with that. Looks like you hit the jackpot. Looks like you found your stride.

[00:02:41] Yeah, I found the right company. I think that's a big part of what it's about.

[00:02:45] So I came here as a head of marketing and my background was marketing, sales, and I had some finance from long, long ago.

[00:02:54] And so how did I do this move through the company?

[00:02:58] Well, I tend to be as a human, like a really interested learner.

[00:03:04] So my parents are both teachers very early on.

[00:03:07] And I kind of got taught by them. You learn something every day of your life, right?

[00:03:11] And so I came to CHG really seeking somewhere I could have that next chapter of my career and in a place where I could be in healthcare and drive more impact than I had been feeling.

[00:03:24] And so I think part one of how you do it is you find the right place to start, right?

[00:03:28] I think that's the best way.

[00:03:29] And CHG was a really good match for what I was looking for that 14 years ago.

[00:03:35] Kind of part two is you work really hard, right?

[00:03:38] I am a worker.

[00:03:40] I have a really value.

[00:03:42] I'm from the Midwest.

[00:03:43] I value strong work ethic and feel like I've just been trained that way from my early life.

[00:03:50] So I came in with a real desire to make an impact and to do the work required while learning every day, if that makes sense.

[00:03:59] So the first five years or so, just work hard, learn more, work hard, learn more.

[00:04:04] And then I would say the next main thing is just trying new things when asked.

[00:04:10] That's one of the best ways.

[00:04:12] So midway through my time at CHG, I took a pretty big detour.

[00:04:16] I was working in sales and marketing and recruitment marketing, and I decided that our company really needed some work in our technology space.

[00:04:26] And so I was a big part of a group, our executive team, working on that.

[00:04:30] And then in the middle of it, my leader said, would you be interested in running our technology organization?

[00:04:37] Now, mind you, those kind of things, those are big risk moments, right?

[00:04:41] They can be.

[00:04:42] They're also huge opportunities.

[00:04:43] So along the way, I was willing to take the leap when the opportunity was presented to me.

[00:04:52] And if I can continue to keep that work hard, learning mindset applied to a take the leap, those are the biggest things that helped me continue to take on more responsibility.

[00:05:02] And the company ultimately, most recently, taking on the full scope of CEO and president.

[00:05:07] So all of those moments where it was like, okay, are you willing to take the risk?

[00:05:12] Are you willing to lean in?

[00:05:14] Working hard to not just say yes, but say, you know, heck yes.

[00:05:18] Like that and go after it with kind of the work ethic and learning mentality that I had been trained early on.

[00:05:25] So find the right company, do the right work, stay learning mindset, right?

[00:05:31] And then take the leap, take the risk are many of the things that kind of helped me.

[00:05:37] And again, vice president of marketing, senior vice president of marketing and sales, chief digital officer, chief strategy officer, head of sales and operations, president, CEO.

[00:05:47] Those, that path are all those moments that helped along the way.

[00:05:50] Leslie, one of the, you know, so many executive level women like you, they fall into a pattern that's similar to you, work really hard, say yes to things.

[00:06:05] And many senior executive level women don't necessarily make that next big jump.

[00:06:14] And, and it's not because of a lack of working hard and it's not because of, you know, a lack of saying yes.

[00:06:22] So is there like some moment when you knew you needed to, I don't know, put it on the line, make it abundantly clear or something that allowed you to perhaps make that next level breakthrough where many others may want to, but just haven't done that yet.

[00:06:45] Is there anything that you recall?

[00:06:47] Yeah, it's a great question.

[00:06:49] And, and so, yes, for sure.

[00:06:50] So there was, and it really happened post the pandemic, in the middle of COVID, you know, everybody, including myself, including our company had to flex our skills in different ways than we had had to ever do before.

[00:07:09] And prior to that, I, I didn't want to have this job.

[00:07:14] Yikes.

[00:07:15] And so there was a moment coming out of.

[00:07:17] Because I'm going to the interview.

[00:07:19] I don't even want this.

[00:07:20] Yeah, isn't that funny?

[00:07:21] I actually, there were moments when I explicitly said, I'm a great number two.

[00:07:28] Okay.

[00:07:28] So that's kind of that stuck moment of, I couldn't envision myself being number one at the company.

[00:07:36] Mm-hmm.

[00:07:36] Now, going through the skill application, the learning of that COVID period, lots of hard things happening in healthcare.

[00:07:45] And so we are, same in our company, you know, we had to flex how we operated to help our customers and our people.

[00:07:53] So all that learning, all that rapid example built my confidence to say yes when asked after.

[00:08:06] And honestly, like, I remember, you know, why do you want to be the CEO?

[00:08:12] You know, I never did.

[00:08:13] So there wasn't a clear, easy answer to that question.

[00:08:16] And at the end of the day, when I ultimately said I'm interested, which I did, I said it because I knew why.

[00:08:26] I knew I wanted to help.

[00:08:28] We have 4,200 people that work at CHG.

[00:08:33] We have over 15,000 clinicians, mostly physicians that we're placing around the world.

[00:08:39] And I knew that I wanted to do it because I wanted to help those people more than I could from a position, the position I was in.

[00:08:48] And it took me really decompressing on why.

[00:08:53] And I coach this a lot with female executives because often we're taught to do it because you should, not because you truly want it.

[00:09:04] And so to me, again, moving from yes to heck yes, and I would say it with more language if I wasn't on a podcast, you know.

[00:09:14] So that moment and then knowing why I moved up the scale of commitment was very, very important.

[00:09:22] So I have a lot of females that talk to me, I would like to be on a board or I would like to be in the C-suite.

[00:09:28] And my first question is always tell me more about why for you.

[00:09:33] And if people can really think about that question, I think it's what helps people get over that last step, if that makes sense.

[00:09:41] It does.

[00:09:42] And I love the focusing on the why to get to your own heck yes.

[00:09:47] I actually have not heard it talked about that way.

[00:09:50] And I think that is, I think that's really powerful.

[00:09:54] All right.

[00:09:55] So that's awesome.

[00:09:56] Thank you for sharing that.

[00:09:57] Let's talk about CHG.

[00:09:59] Let's talk about the company.

[00:10:00] Let's, you know, you're at the helm.

[00:10:02] You've been growing this company in your 14 years in the multiple other leadership positions that you had before the top one.

[00:10:11] So tell us a bit about the company.

[00:10:13] What do you do?

[00:10:14] What are you currently working on?

[00:10:16] Give us a little bit of background there.

[00:10:18] I'd love to.

[00:10:19] I'd love to talk about it.

[00:10:20] So CHG Healthcare, as you mentioned, is the leading physician staffing company in the United States.

[00:10:27] We also do some work around the world.

[00:10:30] We bring doctors to jobs where but for our doctors showing up, patient care would not be provided.

[00:10:39] The industry we are in, healthcare staffing, has a component called locum tenens.

[00:10:45] Locum tenens is means in Latin to take the place of.

[00:10:48] So we are bringing doctors in on a temporary basis to take the place of if a permanent doctor has moved on, if someone is on a leave.

[00:10:59] So it's temporary staffing of physicians.

[00:11:03] Okay, so that's what the company does.

[00:11:05] We founded this industry in the late 70s.

[00:11:08] It wasn't something that existed.

[00:11:11] It started out really targeted at rural care, where there were not enough doctors to do what was needed for patient care.

[00:11:18] And over time, it's become a mainstream part of the healthcare system today.

[00:11:24] And we are, like I said, the leader in doing it.

[00:11:26] We also pride ourselves in providing really excellent physician workforce support to healthcare systems, hospitals, medical groups, ambulatory care, all over the country.

[00:11:38] Managing a workforce is challenging, right?

[00:11:41] And so we work hard to help our clients do that in the best way possible.

[00:11:47] There's a shortage of clinicians in our country to do what is needed.

[00:11:52] And so we really help close that gap and help consult with them on how best to do that.

[00:11:57] So it's not just a shortage of physicians broadly.

[00:12:01] It's like acute in pockets of specialists or, you know, whether it's a certain location or, you know, whether there is a crisis going on, like we've seen the hurricanes down south.

[00:12:14] And I'm sure you're needing to, you know, address that with some immediate issues of staffing.

[00:12:20] And we've got clinicians at all stages of burnout, which is an acute problem that still unfortunately really exists.

[00:12:31] So with that, you can imagine the complexity.

[00:12:34] You don't even have to tell us.

[00:12:35] So we can all imagine the complexity of what you're up against.

[00:12:38] What are some of the largest challenges that you're facing today?

[00:12:42] And how are you addressing them?

[00:12:44] Yeah.

[00:12:45] So maybe I'll talk about the clinician side first,

[00:12:48] and then I'll come back and talk about running a company this size.

[00:12:51] Our clinical workforce, to your point, has a, it's a large burnout risk in clinical work management.

[00:13:00] And that's true from physicians to nurses to medical assistants, the whole gamut.

[00:13:05] We specialize on the physician side.

[00:13:07] So what are the biggest challenges?

[00:13:09] I mean, you can't produce more doctors overnight, right?

[00:13:12] And so we know the supply of clinical talent coming out of medical school and residency will continue to be a challenge to keep pace with the retirement end of the spectrum,

[00:13:23] which is our aging doctor workforce.

[00:13:26] So the recruiting challenge is incredibly real.

[00:13:30] That's why we get employed, right?

[00:13:31] So we are employed by health systems once they've already tried to recruit on their own to help cover, find both permanent doctors as well as temporary.

[00:13:40] So this, how do you help a doctor through their career?

[00:13:43] How do you become their career agent?

[00:13:46] It's highly complex, but that's a really important part of our business model is to stay centered on the doctor.

[00:13:53] You know, at the end of the day, we want a doctor to be able to do what they do best,

[00:13:57] which is practice atop of their license, deliver the best quality patient care.

[00:14:01] So we, how do we do that?

[00:14:04] Well, we do the work behind them, right?

[00:14:06] We help them find the job.

[00:14:08] We help them move to the place they need to go, whether it's temporary or permanent.

[00:14:12] We work on state licensure.

[00:14:13] We work on credentialing.

[00:14:14] We run a malpractice operation.

[00:14:16] You can imagine all the complexity to making sure they're the right quality doctor.

[00:14:20] And our locum tenens are excellent quality physicians that enter these facilities.

[00:14:25] And then also helping a doctor plan their career.

[00:14:28] I mean, a lot of doctors come out of medical school, residency, fellowship without a career planning mindset.

[00:14:33] And so we end up being a consultant.

[00:14:38] And a lot of debt and a lot of sort of like confusion and then, you know, not getting into the right residency.

[00:14:44] I mean, the challenges just continue to mount.

[00:14:47] Yeah.

[00:14:48] And if you think about a hospital running their workforce, they have a huge workforce challenge.

[00:14:53] Physician is only component of it.

[00:14:55] So we really enter in as that specialist to help on the physician, nurse practitioner, physician assistant,

[00:15:01] kind of that entire pool.

[00:15:03] There are others in our competitive space that do excellent work on the nursing side.

[00:15:07] We aren't specialists on the nursing side.

[00:15:09] We are very deep physician and advanced practitioners.

[00:15:13] And so, again, how do you help a workforce at a hospital have the right levels of staff to prevent burnout,

[00:15:22] to flex as needed with population?

[00:15:24] All of that is very complex.

[00:15:25] And then, you know, we really work hard to do it with a physician's lens in mind.

[00:15:29] So that's part one.

[00:15:30] That's the challenge.

[00:15:31] On our company, it takes 4,200 of us to do that work at scale.

[00:15:36] And so, you know, running a hybrid company, which we are, we have people in almost 50 states that work for us.

[00:15:45] Running a company we're proud of.

[00:15:48] So we are our best place to work or where we actually found out last week.

[00:15:52] Just won the best company work in Salt Lake City where we're headquartered and for large companies.

[00:15:58] Running it in a way we have high integrity and ethics, strong quality professionalism focus,

[00:16:04] and really are trying to do the right thing for our people and our customers all wrapped in one.

[00:16:09] That's a big challenge.

[00:16:11] It doesn't mean it's not fun.

[00:16:12] That's what I love to do.

[00:16:14] But it's building the company you're proud of and doing things in the right way.

[00:16:18] And I think if you combine our work is needed in healthcare with we want to do it the right way, that, you know, in and of itself.

[00:16:26] It's all the fun and all the challenges kind of wrapped up in one sentence.

[00:16:29] Well, Leslie, first of all, congratulations.

[00:16:32] Those are excellent awards to achieve.

[00:16:36] Let's talk about some of the issues underlying that, though.

[00:16:39] You know, from the physician workforce side, you talked a bit about the burnout.

[00:16:46] There's also, there's absolute study after study after study just affirming, confirming that, you know, physicians play,

[00:16:55] seeing patients that look like them, speak like them, like we get better outcomes with that.

[00:17:01] And the same for a workforce that's supporting all of those efforts.

[00:17:07] We know that some of the workforce issues of the day are whether it's health benefits or whether it's sort of like pay scales or whether it's, you know, flexible options for work.

[00:17:19] So, like, what are you focused on there?

[00:17:23] Because there's a lot of issues behind those things.

[00:17:26] They're very complex and multifaceted.

[00:17:29] So, like, pay equity, things like promotion paths.

[00:17:36] What do you focus on to make it a best place to work, to make it a desirable place to be employed by and placed as a position?

[00:17:44] Yeah, great, great question.

[00:17:46] So, I'll start on the inside of CHG.

[00:17:48] So, we focus on inclusive workplace.

[00:17:52] Like, that's our, we want a place where anyone can come with any differing perspective.

[00:17:58] Be welcome to belong, build their career, enjoy the work, and drive impact for their customers, right?

[00:18:04] That's the starting point.

[00:18:06] We've been that way, by the way, for 20 years.

[00:18:08] This has been what we've been building.

[00:18:10] So, how do we do it?

[00:18:11] Well, you kind of evaluate everything is the best way.

[00:18:14] So, we are a company that we're analytical.

[00:18:18] We do a lot of surveys of our employees to understand their perspective.

[00:18:23] We work on a trusting environment that they're willing to voice their point of view.

[00:18:28] We work on follow-up.

[00:18:30] And what that's gotten to us over time is, you know, we, as you think about a few key imperatives,

[00:18:36] we want to have a diverse workforce.

[00:18:40] We're 62% female out of 4,200 employees today.

[00:18:44] We want to have representation and leadership that matches the population.

[00:18:49] As an example, I'll use the gender statistics.

[00:18:52] Yay!

[00:18:52] Can I just say yay?

[00:18:55] And the gender statistics may be relevant here, but it's true across the diversity spectrum.

[00:19:01] We have over 50% of our leadership is female.

[00:19:06] And, you know, wouldn't we like it to be 62 to match?

[00:19:08] Absolutely.

[00:19:09] Yeah, absolutely, right?

[00:19:11] And we're working our path there.

[00:19:12] You obviously in the C-suite have me and we have several others sitting close to 40% of my team.

[00:19:17] The executive ranks is on female gender.

[00:19:21] So, this is really important.

[00:19:23] So, you have to know where you are and then you have to not just aim at a goal.

[00:19:27] You got to build the skills, the capabilities, the ability for whoever you are to show up well.

[00:19:32] And that's about good leadership.

[00:19:34] So, we teach inclusive leadership at our company, how to bring out the best in people,

[00:19:39] how to listen for your own bias and that around you.

[00:19:44] We do gender equity screen.

[00:19:46] We have gender pay equity.

[00:19:47] We have for the last seven years in CHG.

[00:19:50] Once we committed, we got it done.

[00:19:52] We evaluate benefits programs.

[00:19:54] We have a flexible work policy.

[00:19:57] We have strong parental leave.

[00:19:59] We have benefits designed for every walk of life, whether it's someone young in their career,

[00:20:05] someone close to retirement.

[00:20:06] Happy to let everyone know.

[00:20:08] Let next, we're adding menopause benefits into work.

[00:20:11] So, again, you think about you have to do the work.

[00:20:15] And doing the work has deliberate action plan.

[00:20:17] That's what we do inside the company.

[00:20:19] Now, how does it translate on the outside?

[00:20:21] First of all, we know we build employees who are committed to inclusive leadership and inclusive

[00:20:29] culture.

[00:20:29] They will act that way on the outside as they serve their customers.

[00:20:33] So, the inside of our company strategy to do it here reflects to the outside as people

[00:20:40] interact with customers.

[00:20:41] We place these physicians all day long.

[00:20:44] We place physicians in flexible work environments.

[00:20:47] Generally, that's something that can work for all genders.

[00:20:50] And we tend to have more female people doing locum tenens physician coverage than permanent physician

[00:20:58] staff because it gives a flexible option to be able to do what you want to do to balance

[00:21:04] it with your life.

[00:21:05] We also renegotiate contracts on every deal.

[00:21:09] That ensures pay equity exists and allows, you know, the more in general you are negotiating

[00:21:15] your contract, the more equity exists, right?

[00:21:19] And so, by definition of it being short-term coverage, we are negotiating at each point.

[00:21:26] Another thing to know is we're an agent for the doctor.

[00:21:28] So, we have a helper or a recruiter.

[00:21:31] We're there to help get the right value for your service, right, as a physician.

[00:21:37] And so, all of those things really lead to helping what I would call inclusive workforce

[00:21:42] show up in our health systems through the physician lens.

[00:21:46] Leslie, like, you know, obviously, like, I support all of those things and applaud you

[00:21:52] for creating them.

[00:21:54] The thing that I'd love to know, because to me, this is the most important point, is how

[00:22:00] does all of that, which I think is all the right stuff to do, how does that translate

[00:22:05] to business company performance, which is, to me, the connection point that's most visible

[00:22:15] to others?

[00:22:17] Yeah, I can actually talk very, for hours and hours, which we don't have about this, but

[00:22:22] I can give you a very specific example for CHG's business performance.

[00:22:26] So, roughly in 2021, we put policy in place to extend our parental leave programs, and

[00:22:34] it includes both men and women.

[00:22:35] And it also includes a return to work schedule post-leave that is very flexible to work to

[00:22:43] help retain our working mothers.

[00:22:46] Nationwide, working mothers, I believe the stats, they retain at about 40% postpartum.

[00:22:51] Um, and we were in a good, I may be wrong, is it 60 or 40?

[00:22:56] One of the two.

[00:22:56] It's not that good.

[00:22:58] Um, uh, uh, it's a lot less than 100.

[00:23:00] I think it's about a lot less than 100.

[00:23:02] We were, prior to these policies, we were retaining about 80% of our postpartum mothers.

[00:23:07] So you could argue we were doing really well.

[00:23:09] Okay.

[00:23:10] Yep.

[00:23:10] Since we put our more broad leave policies in place that allow also a flexible return to

[00:23:17] work and a hybrid work schedule where you're in person and at home, we are

[00:23:21] now retaining 93% of our postpartum mothers.

[00:23:26] Wow.

[00:23:27] Because we're a company of a lot of females, this is really important.

[00:23:31] So I've looked at the math on this.

[00:23:33] And if you think about, if I would be working on the national average, I probably would have

[00:23:38] had 60 more people leave me than I did because of these policies.

[00:23:44] And if you think about the rehiring, the training cost, the, not to mention the long-term customer

[00:23:51] value, by the way, you're talking about two to $3 million of hard recruiting and retention

[00:23:58] costs that I saved by implementing these policies to help retain these 60 women, not to mention

[00:24:06] the value they provide our company, not to mention, you know, I tend to believe in eight

[00:24:11] to 10% multiple on their contribution beyond the hard costs in terms of retention.

[00:24:17] So, you know, I, I've been quoted and I believe it to my heart that we probably saved between

[00:24:22] 20 and $30 million or created value of 20 to $30 million by implementing these programs and

[00:24:30] being better at it than it, the world is.

[00:24:33] And, and to me, that's real value created by these types of policies that just CHG can apply

[00:24:40] to health system hospitals, any company.

[00:24:42] Leslie, you're right.

[00:24:43] We could talk all day about this because I would like leaning into those kinds of unbelievable

[00:24:50] results.

[00:24:52] It's first of all, it's impressive, but it's also to me, like, like that's the really,

[00:24:58] really helpful point say like, it's not just because these are the right things to do.

[00:25:04] They result in better, excellent business performance.

[00:25:09] So Lizzie, as we do close out on this inspiring women conversation, I just love it.

[00:25:15] If you could just leave us with, you know, perhaps like, you know, your best advice, you

[00:25:20] mentor many women at both the earlier stage of their career level, as well as executive level,

[00:25:27] but maybe for those earlier stage career women, what is your best advice for them as they look

[00:25:35] to make their same level of impact in their professions?

[00:25:39] Oh, it's a great question.

[00:25:40] And probably what I think about, you know, by the, by the day I have a 14 year old daughter,

[00:25:45] so I'm definitely thinking about it both on the professional and the personal front.

[00:25:51] But the thing I would really, as I reflect on some of the things that were most important

[00:25:56] early on, I believe that we are taught often as young women to kind of put up a front of,

[00:26:08] in the professional setting.

[00:26:09] And the front is trying to be something maybe you're not, or trying to act a way that, you

[00:26:14] know, may not be your natural comfort zone.

[00:26:17] And so to me, one of the most important thing is to surround yourself with people that let

[00:26:21] you be you.

[00:26:24] Because if you're not letting yourself be you, it takes a lot of effort to be something

[00:26:30] that's not natural.

[00:26:32] You only have so much effort as a person you can put in.

[00:26:35] And wouldn't you like all 100% of the effort to be applied to the work in the professional

[00:26:40] setting instead of applied to trying to create a thing that you're, and then do the work

[00:26:46] on top of that.

[00:26:47] So early in your career, I think really finding the right mentors, partners, teammates that help

[00:26:55] you be you would be my recommendation and tell you when you're not, hey, why are you acting

[00:27:01] like that?

[00:27:02] That's not who you are.

[00:27:03] You're great.

[00:27:04] Be you.

[00:27:05] Bring you to the problem.

[00:27:07] And I think that advice is something that I would really try early in your career to

[00:27:13] take to heart.

[00:27:14] And then the only other one, which probably is also worth saying, is work really hard.

[00:27:19] You know, things don't come without hard work.

[00:27:23] And so if you can apply that 100% of work effort to the work, not to try to be something

[00:27:30] that you're not, and you're willing to put in the work, I think good things happen.

[00:27:36] Well, I would just like to say, heck yes.

[00:27:40] Those comments.

[00:27:41] Those are awesome.

[00:27:42] This has been a great Inspiring Women conversation.

[00:27:45] I've been speaking with Leslie Snavely.

[00:27:48] And Leslie, thank you so, so much.

[00:27:50] Oh my gosh, Lori.

[00:27:50] It's great to do this.

[00:27:52] And nice to be able to be with your audience here.

[00:27:56] Thanks.

[00:27:57] This has been an episode of Inspiring Women with Lori McGraw.

[00:28:01] Please subscribe, rate, and review.

[00:28:03] We are produced at Executive Podcast Solutions.

[00:28:07] More episodes can be found on inspiringwomen.show.

[00:28:11] I am Lori McGraw, and thank you for listening.

[00:28:14] Thank you so much.

[00:28:14] Thank you.