How Does Personal Tragedy Shape One Of The Most Powerful Women In Healthcare? w/Karen Lynch || EP. 201

[00:00:00] The connections of healthcare, as you said, are incredibly fragmented. And there's pieces of that chain that are broken every single day. And I think it's incumbent upon healthcare leaders to really streamline and simplify that healthcare experience. I think the advancement of technology has a huge opportunity to really recreate the system as we know it.

[00:00:25] This is Laurie McGraw. I'm on Inspiring Women. And today I am speaking with Karen Lynch. Karen Lynch is the former CEO and president of CVS Health. Karen is the first woman who cracked the Fortune 10, Fortune 5, actually. She is a leader. She is an inspiration. Every woman who is at this conference, which is a women's leadership conference with senior executives, knows you, Karen, knows your story. I am so happy to be talking to you.

[00:00:59] I'm a little bit nervous. I am really excited. So thank you for being on Inspiring Women. Well, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here and I'm so excited to have met you. And no need to be nervous. This is going to be fun. I know. We were talking about Earth shoes. We were talking about growing up in Massachusetts. We were talking about all the things. Karen, let's just start with what are you doing now? What does today look like? What does tomorrow look like? What does yesterday look like in terms of what you're doing day to day?

[00:01:27] So what am I doing day to day? So I'm doing a number of things. I just joined the Thermo Fisher Scientific Board. It's obviously in healthcare and I, you know, incredibly impassionate about healthcare. And so I'm so excited about that company and where it's headed. I'm working very closely with Korn Ferry to get people ready to be CEOs. And so I'm working on CEO readiness and succession.

[00:01:54] And then I'm also in the early phases of starting a Women's Leadership Institute with a local university in South Florida. And I really am excited about that to really have to build curriculum for women who want to go into business or to have opportunities to create networking events for people that want to learn what other women have done to be successful

[00:02:22] and to help with board readiness. And you also talked about in that, in those early ideas that you have of giving the practical advice, particularly to women for things like negotiating their first salary or their second or third along the way. And those things are so, so needed. And Karen, when you think about just like your journey, I mean, I have your book. I'm so excited to have the hard copy, Taking Up Space. You talked about being the girl from anywhere in Massachusetts.

[00:02:49] And so you started out there. Leadership was not the first idea in terms of what you had, but that was the obvious path that you went on to. So let's talk about the beginning. So just in terms of the key things that in your life sort of like formed you to be the resilient leader that you have been. Do you mind sharing? Yeah. No, Laurie, you know, I talk about this a lot. I, it wasn't about leadership.

[00:03:17] I was a young girl at 12 years old who lost her mom to suicide. And the devastating impact that had on me at that age really kind of set my life story up. I was fortunate to have my aunt take us in. And there was four of us. I have two sisters and a brother. And she, in her own right, was always giving back.

[00:03:46] And she didn't have a high school education. She was a single mom before a single mom was a thing. And she didn't, you know, she was always encouraging us to make sure, she made sure that we all went to college. She made sure that we were always thinking ahead. And I give her a lot. And I give her a lot of credit because she was sort of the core and really what made me who I am today.

[00:04:15] But I lost her in my early 20s. And unfortunately, I sat on her hospital bed and I didn't know what questions to ask. What, you know, what the doctor was actually even saying. And the combination of the profound impact that both the loss of my mom and the loss of my aunt had really kind of instituted in my head, I've got to do something about health care.

[00:04:44] And that's what made me passionate about making a difference in the way that our health care system works today. Well, let's talk about that difference because it has been incredible in terms of your work. And you talk about health care as something that it's not an industry. It's a basic need, a right that we all have. And those experiences, as large as they have been on your life, they've also, it seems from everything that I've read about you.

[00:05:11] I told you last night that, you know, we're sort of at a disadvantage because, Karen, I've read your stuff. I've watched your talks. I feel like I know a lot about you. But you talk about, you know, that passion and that impact and keeping the patient at the center. So as you grew in your career, you know, with Cigna, then on to CVS. I'm sorry, you know, on to CVS.

[00:05:34] How did that keeping the patient at the center, how was that the core of your focus and what you did in your leadership? You know, the customer informs us what their needs are. And if you think about every product, every service within health care or outside of health care, you have to put the patient at the center or the member at the center.

[00:05:59] They are the ones who are going to drive what the health care experience should be. They're the ones who are going to demand what products and services you have. And, you know, I talked about this with you earlier. Health care is not an industry. It is a human need. And, you know, it is the most valuable asset each of us owns. And everything, you could have everything in the world, but if you don't have your health, you don't have anything.

[00:06:29] I mean, think about it. I mean, I broke my hip once. I couldn't do anything for six weeks. And just the impact that has on your, just your psyche. And so that's why it's really important that, you know, we think about health being the most important thing that we preserve as human, as individuals, and that we help people, you know, on their journey of health. And that's where our focus has to be, bar none.

[00:06:57] But in the work of health care, the business of health care, how the money flows in health care, the fragmentation, the missed connections along the way, you've experienced it, you've felt that. How have you gone about solving that? And maybe if you could just talk about at your time at CVS, what are you most proud of in terms of what you did there?

[00:07:20] Yeah, so I'll start with the connections of health care, as you said, are incredibly fragmented. And there's pieces of that chain that are broken every single day. And I think it's incumbent upon health care leaders to really streamline and simplify that health care experience. I think the advancement of technology has a huge opportunity to really recreate the system as we know it.

[00:07:51] Simplicity is the most important thing. When you're sick, when you're hurt, all you want is to figure out in the most simple fashion, how do you get the care that you need? Right. And that's like, that should be the core principle. And it should be easy. And it's not. And it's not, right? And it's really the reimbursement system that's what designed health care. What we really need to now step back and say, okay, if we could redesign it, how do we do it with the patient at the center?

[00:08:21] And then how do we collaborate versus having adversarial relationships in the journey? How do we collaborate and make it simple, make it affordable, have better access to health care? That's what's critically important. You know, there's a number of things that, you know, I did at CBS. During the pandemic. During the pandemic, vaccinated America, right?

[00:08:47] I mean, how exciting, what an opportunity that was to really, you know, help people get vaccinated so we could open up, you know, open up the places that we could go. So I raised minimum wage. I put the employees at the center of everything that we do. I pivoted the organization to generate new sources of revenue and to increase access of health in the home, in the community.

[00:09:15] And I couldn't be more proud of what we were able to accomplish in a very short period of time. Very short period of time. I got all my vaccinations at CVS and I still do. Thank you. Karen, the path to leadership is always hard, but you were on the path to the highest level position that a woman has ever held in a Fortune 500. I mean, you cracked glass ceiling after glass ceiling.

[00:09:41] You, in all of your talks, in all of your, in your book, you credit the work of others, the team and other circumstances. Can you just talk about what did it take to allow you to get there? And then I want to dive into, but what is it about you? You don't like to sort of take all the credit, but I do want to explore that a little bit. Yeah, no one does it alone, right? I stood on shoulders of many.

[00:10:07] I, you can't get, you can't be successful without the help of others. I was, you know, supported by my aunt very young in my life. I had a personal board of directors that really encouraged me to, you know, keep moving. I remember I was always talking about, I'm going to get my MBA. And, you know, I wasn't doing it. I wasn't doing it.

[00:10:32] And my personal board of directors was like, either, you know, do it or stop. Put it up or shut up. Yeah, exactly. Get off it, either do it, you know, and I did it, you know. So I had people encouraging me. I had great teams. I had great mentors. I had a gentleman who was early in my career, who was the CFO. And he took me under his wing. And I remember very early on, he took all, he was actuaries and accountants.

[00:11:01] And he took us all dinner. And I was the only woman there. And he went around the room and everyone, you know, said, what would you be doing tonight if you weren't having dinner with me? And everyone's like, oh, I'd be studying. I'd probably be working. And I was like, I'd probably be in aerobics. So this better be good. And everyone's face, oh, my God. And afterwards, you know, he said to me, he said, you're the only one that was most honest with me.

[00:11:31] And he took me under his wing and he made sure that, you know, he didn't give me anything, maybe, you know, earn things, but he coached and counseled me. I remember when I left, he was and went to Magellan. He was since retired. On my very first press release, he marked up the press. Press release and sent it to me. And I hadn't heard from him in years. Yeah. But he was so invested in my career. Even then, he was giving me feedback. That's amazing.

[00:11:59] And that's sort of the power of having sponsors. And, you know, what we should be doing for others is it's not just a moment of time. You're supporting that person for sort of their career if you're committed to them. And he was committed. Yeah. And I remember looking at it laughing. I was like, I picked a phone and called him. And then he pursued it to give me more advice. He's since passed away.

[00:12:25] But that shows a commitment and that we all, you know, should give back and make sure that we're keeping kind of that longitudinal view of someone's career if we're committed to being their sponsor. You are committed to so many people and helping others. And you do that through your work, helping women, helping all kinds of leaders. I know this about you. But Karen, in terms of that saying yes to one of the largest positions that there is of CEO,

[00:12:54] the difference that it took for you to do that as a woman and break that barrier, there are so many women who are committed and smart and have opportunities and have sponsors. But that moment, how can we have more Karen Lynch's, you know, at that level? What is that thing that you have that you have done that others can do? I don't know that others can't do it.

[00:13:19] I think, and I don't look at it that way per se, but I always encourage women, make sure you tell people that's the job you want. And often we're not that bold and we don't take that step forward to say, I want to be considered for that job. And that, you know, is that a difference maker? I don't know. But to make people aware of what your intentions are, I think it helps a lot because then people

[00:13:49] have you in the back of your mind. And then, you know, it's, you know, you don't have to be special, but you need to be committed. You need to be disciplined. You need to drive results. You need to have accountability and need to be consistently performing. And I don't think there's anything rocket science about the attributes, but it's a consistency throughout your career. Mm-hmm.

[00:14:13] Well, in taking that leap and being at that level, it comes with your friend group gets narrower. Your who are the people that you can count on and trust to give you the feedback becomes narrower. You have shared the spotlight with your team for all of the accomplishments and all of the highs, but you also take full and singularly responsibility for when there are problems.

[00:14:40] You also, just as you rose to the very top, breaking that Fortune 10, Fortune 5, you also lost that opportunity in the fall of last year. And did that surprise you? How do you feel about that? What was that day? What did that look like for you? Yeah. You know, that day was that day for others. That day wasn't that day for me because it was an ultimate decision that I made.

[00:15:06] And I had plenty of time to prepare and be ready for that. I made the decision in the best interest of the company. And that's the role as you are a CEO. Those are the kinds of things that you do. And, you know, if you want to be a leader, you need to be a courageous leader. And that means, like you said, sharing the accolades with the team, but taking full accountability. And that's what the best leaders do.

[00:15:33] And I think that's important for anyone who wants to step into a leadership position to recognize, you know, that there's a power in that leadership role, but there's also a responsibility in that leadership role. There's incredible grace that comes with being fearless about taking those very hard truths that something needs to change and being the person to make that decision to do something like that.

[00:15:58] And for any woman who has risen to a level of leadership at any level, they've had the most wonderful of days. And then they've had the hardest of surprises that hit them. How did you prepare for that change? And I want to talk about reinvention, which is where you're focused on now because you're not done. You're doing so much. But how did you prepare for that reinvention, that transition? I think what you have to, oh, I think it's resilience. You know, it's, you know, everyone's going to have tough days in their careers.

[00:16:28] Everyone's going to have setbacks. Your setbacks don't define you. What defines you is how you get up and move forward. And that's the most important thing. You know, this is the power of, I call optimism and positivity. And, you know, you have, I live my life this way. The pages of the book have already been written from yesterday. The pages tomorrow and today are blank.

[00:16:57] And we have the opportunity to write them and write them the way we want to write them and write them creatively and beautifully. And if you constantly are worrying about the past or what happened in the past, your focus isn't on today and it's not on the future. And you can only impact today in the future. And that's what people need to focus on. How can I make a difference today?

[00:17:25] How can I make an impact tomorrow? And I think that's the best advice I could give anyone. And that's how I live my life. My husband always laughs at me. He goes, you get up happy in the morning every day and drives me crazy because I'm a morning person. That would drive me crazy too. I'm just going to say, Karen, that would drive me bananas. I'm a morning person. I'm up, I'm out. And he's like, wait, I need my coffee. And don't talk to me. That's called being normal. Literally.

[00:17:54] So, Karen, I want to like put a little sort of like asterisk around that because I think that is excellent advice for all leaders. I want to talk about the gender power difference because it is quite a bit different today. It's always been different for women. And today it's even more different or more important to understand that balance. And I like your word fearless. So, what should we be preparing for as women leaders?

[00:18:23] What's happening right now and how are you thinking about it and advising others? Yeah. You know, what I've been advising others is it's the power in numbers. And women have to support one another now more than they ever did before. Both in sort of cheering them on when they're successful and helping pick them up when they're stumbling. And I firmly believe that women can do that.

[00:18:51] It doesn't come natural because a lot of times we as women, myself included, heads down, get the job done. Right. And move forward. And you have to find the time to build those relationships and, you know, pull up a chair for someone else. And now, given sort of the environment that we're living in right now, which I never thought I would see because it's always been kind of an upward trajectory of women in the workforce and empowering women.

[00:19:18] And there's some sort of blasé kind of happening now. But there's so much to be said for the power of women, the power of numbers. Yeah. And I think people need to stand tall and be bold together and make a difference together.

[00:19:37] And I think that if there's one thing, advice I'd give to women today is make sure that you're supporting each other and that you're wrapping yourselves, you know, around each other to really, you know, support and make each other successful. That to me is so important. I mean, your book, Taking Up Space, I mean, it's like an anthem book, you know, and it really is about, you know, what you can do as an individual. I found it incredibly inspiring.

[00:20:06] And I think the addition that you're putting on there, the chapter now is the taking up space, but also for all of us others make more space for people, for women in particular. And I love that. I think that is the most critical thing of our time. We're up against something. The progress has been there, but it is slowing and even in many places going backwards. Right.

[00:20:31] And so you'd also commented earlier, like if you're not already feeling it. It's coming. It's coming. Yeah. It's coming. So. And I think, you know, I talk about the book a little bit too about, you know, take up space, but take up, help others take up space too. And there's always one or two more seats, pull up a chair for another woman.

[00:20:52] And the other thing I would say is make sure that you're helping each other by giving honest feedback and, you know, kind of having the real conversation and, you know, being supportive. But you don't know what you don't know. So if someone can, you know, provide you with insight around what you could be doing even better or what you could be doing differently. Absolutely. There's so much power in that because if you don't know, you can't change. Right. Right.

[00:21:20] Giving feedback is actually a skill. It really is. And it's very easy to say good job and be encouraging and warm in that way. But the real friends, the real mentors, the real supporters are the ones that are somewhat brutal in an appropriate way that can be heard. Exactly. They, you might want to consider thinking about it this way. You might want to do it that way. What was that? What were you thinking? Yeah.

[00:21:46] And I, there's, I think that's what's kind of missing and what is important for all of us to get better at. And I always say to people, you know, feedback is a gift. Right. And you can, you know, you can try it on. If it doesn't fit, then discard it. If it doesn't feel like it's you, it's okay.

[00:22:06] But at least you know, and at least someone has shared it with you so that you're making those decisions about you and your leadership and about how you're going about things, but you don't have a blind spot anymore. Right. And I think that's what's most critical. Yep. So, Karen, you also are in a new phase and you're in a period of reinvention, maybe re-energy. I don't know what it is, but you're quite optimistic about this time in healthcare.

[00:22:35] And you've said, this is a time to be fearless and to be bold. And you have underscored, emphasized bold a lot of times in the talk that you were just at. So can you talk about what is important to you right now? And why are you so excited about the future of health and care right now? Well, this is, you know, we're at a time where, you know, five years post-pandemic, we thought everything, you know, we thought there'd be stability in healthcare.

[00:23:02] And we went through a period of significant change and innovation during the pandemic. Now, what we're seeing is there's chaos in the healthcare system. There's a regulatory environment that is rapidly changing and shifting. Confusing. You've got workforce shortages. You've got the technology revolution of AI.

[00:23:29] And I think, you know, 10 to 20 years from now, people are going to look back and call this the technology revolution, particularly in healthcare. And I'm really encouraged because I do think that the public is saying, and they are speaking very loudly about the need for change in healthcare. Yes.

[00:23:49] And when your consumers are telling you so loudly, then it's important and incumbent upon the leaders in healthcare to start making those changes. Because if you don't make change, disruptors and innovators will come in and meet the needs of those consumers and of those patients. I'm encouraged by just that fact alone. Mm-hmm. I'm encouraged that.

[00:24:14] I think technology can really change the landscape of how healthcare is delivered. It can reduce a lot of the burden of cost. And I think that, you know, when we talked, we started this, healthcare is not an industry. It's a human need. Mm-hmm. And you've got to address the needs of the American population in healthcare.

[00:24:39] And there's no better time than now, because if you don't make change, someone else will. Yep. Can you talk about trust? You mentioned trust as a very, very important factor for making it easy, providing access. But there's been an erosion of trust. There's been an erosion of trust in our institutions. There's been an erosion in trust in terms of people that we used to count on in our communities. So how can we bring that back to the equation?

[00:25:06] Well, I think it's the consistency and the change. And because the public has spoken and they don't trust the healthcare system. And so it requires big innovation. And the only way you're going to bring back trust is to show that change, show that innovation, show the simplicity, show the difference.

[00:25:33] If you don't make the changes or you demonstrate that you've met the needs. I mean, think about, you know, when you're buying anything, right? If you don't trust that product, you go somewhere else. Right. Easily. Or someone else fills that need. And there are lots of people dabbling in healthcare today. The tech companies are just waiting to pounce. And they're already been doing a lot of research.

[00:26:01] They're already, you know, in certain parts of the healthcare continuum and change. And they want to be in healthcare. If the current legacy systems, provider systems, payer systems, don't make some of those bold moves, there are easily others that will replace them. Karen, we're going to ask some advice questions. I know you get asked this often and a lot.

[00:26:26] First, for allies, for all of those non-women who are out there supporting the advancement of women into leadership or at some helpful point in their career. What do you say to them? I say be a sponsor. You know, find women that you're supportive of that you know can be incredibly successful and support them. Give them the tools. Give them the coaching, the feedback. We talked about a gentleman that supported me.

[00:26:56] It wasn't just for the job. It was for my entire career journey. Yep. Make that investment. Yep. And I love that story about how he marked up that press release for you. It was like, we can do better than this. That's amazing. Exactly. And that was many years post when I worked with him. Yep. In the workplace, we're now at like there's five generations that are actually in the workforce now. It's really quite remarkable. People are healthier and working longer.

[00:27:24] And we have early stage people coming in. So for the younger generations, for those that are starting out, it's different for them than it was for when you and I started out working. What advice do you give to those younger women? I would say to them, you know, have a purpose. You know, make sure that you have a passion for what you're doing.

[00:27:46] Make sure that you are telling people what you're interested in and what your career journey would look like. Drive results. I mean, be accountable and be bold and fearless. And that's the best advice. And never let a setback or a mistake get in your way. Get up and move forward.

[00:28:13] If you could go back and start again, knowing what you know now, would you have chosen a different pathway? No, I'm really happy with how it all turned out. I feel quite, I mean, there were, you know, times and places in my career where I was like, I'm done. But I, three, three times on Monday. I am really, I am really happy about how it all turned out.

[00:28:43] So if we just look and we close out this conversation and we think about what you're optimistic about in the next, pick a timeframe, five years, 10 years, what do you think is possible? I think, I think what's possible is really revolutionizing the healthcare system through technology. That is the number one thing that will change healthcare.

[00:29:05] I also think that I'm very optimistic that the patient-centered model will, you know, emerge even more brightly because it has to. Yep. It certainly does. It certainly does. So Karen, last question, as we close out on this Inspiring Women conversation, you're in this period of reinvention, then what is next, chapter next.

[00:29:32] What are you thinking about in terms of your impact for the next chapter? Yeah, I, you know, as I said earlier, it's, it's, I have the ability to use sort of my experiences, my wisdom to give back, to give back to women, to give back to the community. And that's really where my husband, Kevin and I are focusing our time. And someone said, I, somebody used the word the other day, you know, it's preferment.

[00:30:01] I'm doing the things I prefer. Sure. And it's a lot of fun. And I think, you know, for me, it's about giving back and creating a long-lasting legacy of making sure that it's not about all the accomplishments. It's about how I impacted people and how I made people feel. And that's really where I'm focusing my time and energy right now. Well, that's incredible.

[00:30:27] And Karen, as we close out this conversation, as somebody who has admired your long career journey and your impact and have broken the barriers that you have broken for women who are aspiring to leadership, who are in leadership, your legacy is here. I want to thank you for all of your leadership, for all of us. And this has been an incredible, inspiring women conversation. I've been speaking with Karen Lynch. Karen, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Pleasure.