Kristin Rodriguez on Guiding the Hero’s Journey || EP. 160

[00:00:00] and I mean, that's how I really see Vitality. I see Vitality as a really powerful helper and guide

[00:00:05] that can be with that hero all along the way so that they have that edge to make the better decision

[00:00:13] to stick with something because while it's hard right now, Future You is really going to appreciate

[00:00:18] it and to be able to help them kind of hold that in their mind's eye while they're working

[00:00:23] with the hard thing. So that's really the thing that keeps me motivated and something about

[00:00:29] keeping me motivated. I mean, it's very motivating. It's very exciting because you see it all the time

[00:00:34] both personally and professionally with individuals that are navigating health care in the U.S.

[00:00:38] It is incredibly challenging. This is Inspiring Women and I'm speaking with Kristin Rodriguez

[00:00:48] and we are at the WBL Annual Summit and Kristin just took a new job. She is the Chief Product

[00:00:54] Officer at the Vitality Group. I'm going to be talking to her about that. Kristin, thank

[00:00:58] you for being on Inspiring Women. I am so excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

[00:01:03] I think you're so excited because we're sort of like at that part of the conference where you've

[00:01:06] done 10,000 steps in a day and you still have energy for this. I'm excited that you do have

[00:01:13] that energy. So let's get in. So Kristin, I always want to start with the biosketch but

[00:01:18] I want to start even before that. Let's do it a little differently this time. So

[00:01:22] when you know in the way back machine, what did you want to be when you grew up?

[00:01:26] Gosh, well, there's a two-part answer. So what I wanted to be was I really wanted to own my own

[00:01:34] coffee shop and sit in the corner and write the next great American novel. That was always plan

[00:01:40] A but I come from a military family and so there was a lot of energy around service and

[00:01:47] around military service as well. Okay. And did you go into the service? Was that part of what

[00:01:53] you've done over the years? I ultimately decided not to. When I was in high school,

[00:01:57] I did serve, I participated in JROTC which is new kind of a training ground, unofficial

[00:02:05] training ground for kids that were really for me it was I didn't want to do PE. Be clear,

[00:02:10] I like being active but I didn't like changing my clothes in the middle of the school day.

[00:02:14] That was too much. So JROTC was a different option to PE but very quickly became a really

[00:02:21] viable path to college with something that of course my dad who's a retired Marine was really

[00:02:26] excited about. And I learned a lot. I ultimately was the COO which is like the president of the

[00:02:33] club so to speak. Awesome. Okay. So plan B, you're not writing the next novel although

[00:02:39] maybe that's in your future and you don't have a coffee shop. And so what was plan B? What

[00:02:45] happened? Give us a little bit of the bio sketch. Well, when I left high school,

[00:02:48] I actually did have a full ride to the Naval Academy. So that was plan A, it was to go

[00:02:52] into the Naval Academy and then ultimately serve. And then I kind of did a full 90 degree

[00:02:58] somewhere else. You know, 17, I was sure that I had a better idea of what I should be doing.

[00:03:04] And really confident in my ability to make long-term decisions at 17. So I decided not

[00:03:08] to go to the Naval Academy and instead I kind of did a bohemian walkabout. There was about

[00:03:12] a two-year period where I worked a lot of different kinds of jobs. During that time,

[00:03:18] I think ultimately I've actually attended seven different colleges. I attended college in

[00:03:23] Louisiana, in Florida, in Tennessee and ultimately landed in California. And it was around,

[00:03:30] I was 20 years old when I finally said, okay, I need to get serious here. I need to finish

[00:03:35] this degree. I need to get this done. And so I ultimately transferred. What could the military

[00:03:39] family think about the seven different colleges and the bohemian walkabout? Just curious.

[00:03:43] Yeah. Well, I mean, so to be clear, very loving family. My parents definitely wanted me to feel

[00:03:51] good about what I was doing. I think they had no idea what that was. They just, my mom used

[00:03:55] to say, you know, as long as it's legal, honey, like as long as it's legal. But otherwise

[00:04:01] we're pretty supportive and loving her out. And then when I ultimately transferred into

[00:04:07] Berkeley, I mean, you know, maybe it's not Annapolis, but Cal is still pretty cool. So,

[00:04:11] you know, I feel like they appreciated it. They were okay with that. Yeah, they were okay with

[00:04:15] that. Okay. So then you started to move into marketing and communications and you started to

[00:04:21] run things. So give us a little bit of that experience and then also the pivot to healthcare.

[00:04:27] Yeah. I like to say I fell into healthcare sideways. That's definitely the start of my

[00:04:32] healthcare journey. So, you know, when I was working through college, six years, I worked through it,

[00:04:38] I met my husband before I graduated. We ultimately got married right before I graduated from Cal.

[00:04:44] And at the time we thought we wanted six children. Oh my gosh. I do not have six

[00:04:50] children. This is an important call out. So I only have two. Okay. So we did a pivot there

[00:04:56] in the middle. With four more coming in a new novel. Got it. Right. Yes. There's a lot

[00:05:00] of plans at work here. So we started having kids young because we thought, oh, we want a lot

[00:05:06] of them. We should get going. And you know, it's amazing how kids change everything. So I was on

[00:05:11] a very different career path. I was actually in sales. I don't really like sales, but that was

[00:05:17] the job that I had. Sales is the job of leadership. That is for sure. This is true.

[00:05:21] You do learn a lot by just pounding the pavement and having to walk up into places and

[00:05:26] say, Hey, hi, my name is Kristen. Can I speak to you about your packaging? Yes. I worked for a

[00:05:33] packaging company in Silicon Valley. So we sold $500 boxes that $10,000 lasers would fit into.

[00:05:38] So it was a really special job. But so I had my son and at the time between my work schedule

[00:05:46] and my husband's work schedule, we kind of had this epiphany where we thought to ourselves,

[00:05:50] neither one of us is going to actually ever see this kid because of just our schedules.

[00:05:55] He's basically going to grow up in daycare. And I said, well, that doesn't really work for me.

[00:06:00] Now that I'm really thinking about this, you know, that I mentioned we started young,

[00:06:03] so we didn't really talk about things in advance. And so I said, okay, well,

[00:06:08] I need a new job. And it was really just that simple. So I had a really clear parameter list

[00:06:13] of this is what I need the new job to be. Nothing on that list actually involved what the

[00:06:18] job was. It was just, it needed to be these hours. It needed to allow this flexibility. It

[00:06:23] needed to be about this pay. And basically just was like, okay, what fits my needs?

[00:06:28] That sounds very Gen Z. Does it? Yes.

[00:06:32] Okay. And so I ended up with a role at Financial Research Associates, which now has been

[00:06:38] purchased and I started out as a conference producer for them, which, you know, and that

[00:06:43] was, I had to tell you, that was one of the coolest jobs ever. So it was total accident

[00:06:46] that I got it. But man, I learned so much and really fell in love with one of the things

[00:06:51] I'm still in love with today, even in my job now, which is just really, really caring about

[00:06:58] the customer and falling in love with their problem and staying in love with their problem

[00:07:03] the whole time. What were those types of problems that you were solving at that point in time?

[00:07:07] I started out with financial management conferences, so hedge fund managers.

[00:07:14] They felt like they had really big problems. I don't know that I agree with the problems

[00:07:19] that they were worried about. But so I learned a lot about financial management and risk

[00:07:23] management around hedge funds. And so I did a lot of conferences there. And then I was a few

[00:07:28] months into the role and my boss walked into my cubicle and she handed me this huge, thick

[00:07:33] printout and she said, this is something new. We haven't really done a lot in this space,

[00:07:37] but take a read and see what you think. Could we do a conference around this?

[00:07:42] Could there be something? And what she had handed me was my very first CMS call letter.

[00:07:47] Okay. And it was when risk adjustment really became a big deal. It was the first year that

[00:07:53] CMS started attaching penalties and the red V was introduced. And so I'm reading it and I

[00:07:58] did a few exploratory calls and of course figured out really quickly, yes, this is a big deal.

[00:08:03] And yes, there's going to be a lot of problems here. And so that was really my first moment

[00:08:08] in healthcare was learning, well, okay, what is this risk adjustment thing? And oh,

[00:08:12] what's Medicare and what's CMS? And so just a huge learning curve.

[00:08:17] Okay. So you figured out how the hedge funds works and they don't really have real problems.

[00:08:20] Now you've got CMS figured out. And so then you go on from conferences to what?

[00:08:25] I was recruited from financial research associates to Gorman health group, which

[00:08:29] has since been bought by another organization, Convey. And I joined them as their very first

[00:08:38] executive director of marketing. Up to that point, Gorman health group had sold

[00:08:42] really how a law firm sells the partners, the deals. And they really wanted to evolve that

[00:08:47] into a more methodical data oriented approach. They also wanted to think through a community

[00:08:56] based, but kind of like a network based way of monetizing their content. And so

[00:09:02] that was the second time I created something new. I ended up creating a product for them

[00:09:06] called the points. And at the time, it was the first time I think that a firm in the

[00:09:12] healthcare space had thought about, oh, we don't have to just do content marketing. We can actually

[00:09:17] monetize this and create kind of a lower entry point to engaging with the consulting firm.

[00:09:25] Okay. So like at this point you're sort of like falling into the next job and the next

[00:09:29] job, but there's a theme of curiosity, learning new things, and then now being

[00:09:34] putting clean put into positions of leadership. So let's sort of fast forward to today and the

[00:09:40] vitality group and congratulations on the new role. Did you seek this role? Were you sought

[00:09:47] after for this role? Just like, how did you get to this new organization? And then I want

[00:09:53] to talk about the vitality group. Yeah. So this one actually, this was the first time in

[00:09:58] my, so I've been in healthcare now around 17 years, and this is the first time that I

[00:10:02] actually like went out looking for a job. So then I'd been very fortunate. It's a really weird flex,

[00:10:08] like people always come find me, but I had always been very fortunate that was how it happened.

[00:10:13] Usually it's for a reason. Usually it's something about the you that makes that happen.

[00:10:19] Just saying. I'll take it. Thank you. Thank you. So in this case, I had been with Health

[00:10:25] Plan Alliance, fantastic organization for a long time, and I had just kind of gotten to

[00:10:29] a spot where I felt like, I think I'm ready for the next thing. Whatever that is. And I didn't

[00:10:36] have a parameter. I didn't have a clean list of here's everything it has to be. I had some

[00:10:41] ideas, but was much more open to like, well, let's see what's out there. And so Vitaly and

[00:10:46] I had a little bit of a long courting period, I suppose you could say. Funny enough, I

[00:10:52] actually first crossed my path at a WBL event. Oh really? Oh, interesting. So we could just

[00:10:57] plant that little seed there for later if we want to talk about that. But so Vitaly, they have a

[00:11:03] relationship with the Health Plan Alliance. And so I sat with them, a big capacity of my job

[00:11:08] at the Health Plan Alliance was sitting down with vendors and listening to their pitches and

[00:11:13] kind of talking through where I see it resonating with regional payers, where I see the

[00:11:18] gaps. And so I did that with them. And what I'm told is that after that conversation,

[00:11:23] they hung up and were like, wow, that was a lot of dots getting connected. A lot of me thinking,

[00:11:29] well, if you do this, then have you thought about investing here because then you could go to the

[00:11:32] next thing, et cetera. And so it was a few months of just exploratory conversations.

[00:11:38] And ultimately in December made the shift and started in early January. Well, it's a big

[00:11:43] job. OK, you're the chief product officer. So you're doing both strategy as well as what

[00:11:48] does the job entail? And what does the organization do? Maybe start there.

[00:11:54] Sure. Vitality's core purpose is to make people healthier. It's really simple,

[00:11:59] but not easy to do. Vitality is actually part of a large international firm called

[00:12:07] Discovery Health. And the technology that Vitality has is over 30 years old.

[00:12:13] And globally, over 30 million people are on this platform. At its core, it's a behavior change

[00:12:19] platform. It looks at data and behavior science and bring those two things together with a layer

[00:12:25] of incentivizing to get the person to do the thing that they should be doing. We all know

[00:12:32] there's things we should be doing. It's so hard. OK, but this is such a hard

[00:12:35] thing to do. So like, you know, is it working? How is it working? Because

[00:12:40] so many platforms are trying to do this. And yet we just know that behavior change is the

[00:12:46] hardest amount of change that there is. And some of the behaviors are just like the simple things,

[00:12:52] like whether it's diet or the, gee, I wanted to sleep a little bit longer than actually

[00:12:57] do the exercise in the morning. I mean, those are hard things to break.

[00:13:00] Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think this is the big thing that actually drew me to Vitality is

[00:13:05] there are a lot of new platforms out there that are looking at behavioral science and

[00:13:09] that are looking at, oh, we'll do a layer of rewards and incentives to kind of bribe someone

[00:13:16] into closing the care gap or whatever the thing is that the risk holder is looking for them to

[00:13:21] do. The secret sauce that I think Vitality has is one, this is not a guess. This thing's

[00:13:28] three decades old. And there's millions of people using it. The platform is powered by

[00:13:33] a data set of 60 million life years. And that number is so big, it almost feels like, OK,

[00:13:39] but what that means is that when we're training models or we're pulling insights from that model,

[00:13:44] the level of understanding and just the breadth of that experience is so meaningful.

[00:13:51] So there's really two models that work together here. One is the propensity model, which is,

[00:13:55] OK, so we need Kristen to get up and start moving. How likely is she to do that based on

[00:14:02] what we know, based on how she interacts with the app, based on the habits that we

[00:14:05] know she already has? And then on the other side of that equation, we know, OK, well, based on

[00:14:09] Kristen's health risk profile, we really need her to stop smoking. I don't smoke with our example.

[00:14:16] We really need her to stop smoking. But maybe Kristen just isn't open to that.

[00:14:22] But we can surface something else for her. We can lower the hurdle. So this is where that

[00:14:26] behavioral science piece comes in and really understanding, OK, it's not just about

[00:14:31] nagging Kristen, OK, quit smoking, quit smoking, quit smoking. Anybody who's married

[00:14:35] knows that doesn't actually work, right? The nagging thing really doesn't work.

[00:14:38] But if you offer up something else or lean into the biases that we all have around behavior change

[00:14:45] and really use that science, then you can start to plant seeds. You can start to get that person

[00:14:51] to. What about medications? I mean, there's also, I mean, clearly in the world of, you

[00:14:54] know, so whether we're dealing with obesity or other conditions, but we have new medications

[00:15:01] out there, Ozempic, you know, all of those types of things. Does that play into what you're

[00:15:06] doing at Vitality? Are you thinking about that or how does that integrate or not integrate

[00:15:11] with your solutions? Totally. Absolutely. I think we think about medications. So

[00:15:15] you mentioned like a GLP-1. I guess it's a huge thing. One of the pieces that we have

[00:15:19] in our playbook is we call it our dynamic contribution manager. And so this is a really

[00:15:25] powerful element of behavior change is, you know, all of us when it comes to health care,

[00:15:28] there's kind of two things, two parts of our brain. I think when we're engaging with the

[00:15:31] healthcare system, one of course is just, okay, as an individual consumer of healthcare,

[00:15:36] there are certain things maybe I should be doing differently like eating more vegetables,

[00:15:39] et cetera, go get my flu shot. And then the other side of it is healthcare is really

[00:15:43] expensive. And when we talk about the GLP-1s, you know, obviously this is a huge potential

[00:15:49] expense for any risk takeout. Healthy food is expensive.

[00:15:52] Indeed. Yes. Yes, it is. And so the dynamic contribution manager is

[00:15:58] one lever that's available for a risk holder where let's say, for example, a risk, an employer

[00:16:04] decides, okay, we do want to cover GLP-1s for weight loss. Then you can have this layer of

[00:16:10] a dynamic contribution manager where if an employee says, okay, I would like to use this,

[00:16:15] my clinician has evaluated me. I'm a good candidate. They want to prescribe it. Then

[00:16:21] this dynamic contribution manager can say, okay, we will cover it for you. That insurance

[00:16:25] is there. It's stable. You can count on it. However, you have to engage in the lifestyle

[00:16:31] changes and in the care management program that wraps around that prescription so that you have

[00:16:37] the best opportunity for success. And when you do those things, when you engage,

[00:16:43] then your contribution is going to be X. If you choose not to engage,

[00:16:48] then your contribution is going to be Y. And so you have to put more money on the table.

[00:16:52] So you're figuring those things out. And Kristen, one of the things that is just sort of like,

[00:16:57] this is I'll just say a buzzy space. Behavioral health changes to solve might be chronic

[00:17:03] conditions or pre-health conditions or things of that nature. So there's a lot of noise

[00:17:10] out there. There's some evidence for certain things, but then evidence that contradicts

[00:17:17] progress that might be out there. So as a person responsible for strategy, taking whatever you

[00:17:24] currently have and advancing it for your organization, what do you do? What's your

[00:17:29] process for staying sharp, making decisions when you're literally writing a new playbook

[00:17:35] that doesn't exist? How do you go about doing that work? Yeah. Gosh, I think at the heart of

[00:17:42] it, honestly, it really does go back to the thing I mentioned earlier, which is I have that hero

[00:17:50] in my mind. I have that person in my mind. Really what I want for every healthcare consumer

[00:17:56] in the US is I want them to be the hero in their healthcare journey. I want them to have

[00:18:03] the helpers and the tools and the guides along that way so that they can complete that

[00:18:08] hero's journey. And that's how I really see Vitality. I see Vitality as a really powerful

[00:18:14] helper and guide that can be with that hero all along the way so that they have that edge

[00:18:21] to make the better decision, to stick with something because while it's hard right now,

[00:18:26] future you is really going to appreciate it and to be able to help them hold that in their

[00:18:31] mind's eye while they're working with the hard thing. So that's really the thing that

[00:18:36] keeps me motivated and something about keeping me motivated. It's very motivating, it's very exciting

[00:18:41] because you see it all the time, both personally and professionally with individuals that are

[00:18:46] navigating healthcare in the US. It is incredibly challenging. And then as far as really staying

[00:18:52] on top of what are the opportunities today and then where do I see things going in the future,

[00:18:57] there's really three things going on that I'm watching really closely and I think are really

[00:19:01] exciting. One is that slowly, steadily we're shifting risk to the individuals. So financial

[00:19:07] risk for healthcare is very squarely landing on the consumer's shoulders. And candidly,

[00:19:11] I worry about that. I don't know that the average healthcare consumer understands what that

[00:19:18] means to hold the financial risk for your healthcare choices and for your health risk,

[00:19:23] combining those two things together. I think it's really complex. And so I worry about that.

[00:19:28] And so thinking about how do we help bridge that understanding gap? I think about a similar thing

[00:19:35] is like your tax liability. Once people understand their tax profile, then they start

[00:19:40] thinking differently about, okay, do I take a standard deduction? Do I write? So it's kind

[00:19:44] of the same idea is where I approach it. And I think some of the other pieces that I'm

[00:19:49] watching really carefully are this race to new sites of care delivery. So we're trying to get

[00:19:54] more care at home, more virtual care, more telehealth, remote monitoring.

[00:20:00] Many of those areas, Vitality is already doing a lot of work. And so I think that makes a lot

[00:20:04] of sense for us to continue to lean in there. And so I'm really excited about that.

[00:20:09] And then I'm also really excited about when we think about healthcare payers are more and

[00:20:14] more being asked to influence, to take responsibility for, to really quantify

[00:20:23] non-clinical interventions and the social determinants. And the way that these

[00:20:29] influence and impact the outcomes that we can expect any individual in our population to have.

[00:20:34] And that's a really hard space for a payer to be, right? Because they don't have a lot of

[00:20:39] control over those things. And yet they're being asked to account for it and then to help influence

[00:20:45] it to the good. And so I think that's another, what we think about where wellbeing meets care

[00:20:50] in that intersection point. That's something I'm really interested in just continuing to dig

[00:20:54] into where we're seeing leaders emerge. So thinking about even just the Z codes and the

[00:20:59] way CMS is thinking, okay, can we capture this? But also looking at school sites, looking at

[00:21:06] the CBOs and the way that they need more support, right? Because it's one thing just to say,

[00:21:10] oh, here I'm writing a prescription for you to go to the food pharmacy down the street. But

[00:21:14] does that food pharmacy have enough funding? Right. Right. Like take the traffic.

[00:21:19] I mean, just the level of breadth of complexity that you just outlined in terms of the things

[00:21:24] that you're thinking about. But also what I'm also hearing and what you're saying is just,

[00:21:28] you know, levers that you're thinking about because the magic formula does not exist yet in

[00:21:33] this healthcare system to solve the problems that you're working so hard on. And, you know,

[00:21:39] having 60 million years of data points is amazing. And if you can find the way,

[00:21:45] whether it's between financial returns, I love the example of like how people think about their

[00:21:51] taxes, actually that you're looking at that and education there and how that might apply to

[00:21:57] healthcare, financial rest. That just sounds really promising because the problems are large.

[00:22:03] And so I'm rooting for you. I want you to solve all of these problems.

[00:22:08] Kristin, I want to move a little bit back to you and just in terms of this career trajectory

[00:22:13] as you're doing these important work of today. And I noticed that in your background that you

[00:22:20] also have an advanced degree, which you got while you were still on your executive career

[00:22:27] trajectory. And it's so hard to be in school in and of itself is so hard to have,

[00:22:33] you know, a very important and demanding job and then get you went back to school.

[00:22:39] So I'm just interested as to why and, you know, why was that important for you to pursue?

[00:22:46] Yeah, I first of all, fantastic. Congratulations for doing that. I mean,

[00:22:51] that let me not say that. I mean, my goodness.

[00:22:55] Yeah. Well, I mean, I think a couple things I do. So I was on a track for executive positions

[00:23:04] and my sponsor and advisor at that time really encouraged me to look at an advanced degree.

[00:23:11] Said, you know, when you think about how you look on paper, most executives have an advanced

[00:23:15] degree and this is something that will serve you. And I think she was right. Absolutely.

[00:23:20] So from that perspective alone, I think that was really wise advice. And then I chose to

[00:23:24] pursue informatics because my undergrad is in comparative literature. So if you want to geek

[00:23:30] out about John Milton, I understand you're also coffee shops. I got it. So that was my

[00:23:38] undergrad. And so I really wanted to kind of round out, you know, that feeling of expertise

[00:23:43] and the ability to really grapple with the systems and data issues that payers in particular

[00:23:51] are dealing with today. So I focused on a kind of different area to round out my undergrad

[00:23:57] and then doing it while working. I don't recommend it. It was definitely really hard.

[00:24:04] I'm incredibly lucky. I have a very, very strong partner in my husband. And at the time,

[00:24:11] my children weren't tiny. They were old enough that they were able to root for me and all of

[00:24:16] that. And then, you know, I finished that up in 2018, I think is when I finished that degree.

[00:24:22] It's a little bit of a blur, right? Like, so I remember when I had a three-year-old and

[00:24:25] a newborn, that time of my life was kind of a blur and my advanced degree, you know,

[00:24:30] I did it in 18 months. That was also a little bit of a blur.

[00:24:33] Oh my gosh, that is, I'm a little bit groggy just thinking about it. So well,

[00:24:39] congratulations for doing it. And so it was advice. You took it and did it help you?

[00:24:44] Was it worth it?

[00:24:46] I think it did, you know, really, because one part about going back to school after having

[00:24:53] some time under my belt in a professional setting was, I think I was lucky enough

[00:25:00] to know what I didn't know. And so I approached the program, I think, a little differently than

[00:25:05] my cohorts. So, you know, in any advanced degree, obviously there's always some element

[00:25:11] of business. So I did, I got to do some corporate finance. I got to do some governance

[00:25:15] in addition to the topic-specific deep dives that we're doing and database and others.

[00:25:20] And so that was really helpful for me. And I think also, you know, sometimes we,

[00:25:27] the distance between school and then work, you don't necessarily get to apply.

[00:25:32] But there were quite a few things that I did turn around. I said, you know, this actually

[00:25:37] would help me in my meetings right now. So even though I still don't recommend it,

[00:25:42] it was really hard, but that was definitely the silver lining.

[00:25:44] That was a very, very hard thing to do. Well, again, congratulations on that. But

[00:25:48] let's also talk about investing in yourself. And we're here at the WBL conference.

[00:25:52] And so the Women Business Leaders, you've been a member for a number of years.

[00:25:57] And I think about it as investing in yourself, being part of this professional executive

[00:26:02] network. So why did you join? Why do you keep coming back?

[00:26:06] I joined because at the time the organization I was with, the president who she was on her

[00:26:14] final year, she's getting her to retire. And she was the only person in our organization

[00:26:17] that was a member of WBL. And so that was actually my little crack opening in the door

[00:26:23] that I said, well, you know, she gets a lot of great speaker ideas.

[00:26:28] And wow. So I mean, I really think we need

[00:26:30] representation. So I kind of secured the funding, made sure that stayed put in terms

[00:26:36] of making sure that that budget was there. And then for myself, I'm sure you've heard

[00:26:43] this the whole time we've been at this conference. WBL is very special. I think

[00:26:47] one of the mottos that Lynn reminds us all is there's no such thing as a cold call.

[00:26:51] And especially in my line of work where a big part of my jobs, all of them is in many ways,

[00:26:58] I consider myself a professional listener. It really is like, do I understand the problem

[00:27:03] statement? Do I understand what it is that's motivating this other person on their hero's

[00:27:09] journey that I'm trying to be a part of? And so WBL is a huge resource for me to do

[00:27:14] some of those exploratory conversations. So give us one of those stories. Did you

[00:27:18] ever make any of those cold calls or? Oh, sure. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:27:22] So gosh, when in the health plan Alliance, we were standing up a Medicare Advantage

[00:27:30] and of learning collaborative. And so I had my gut instincts as to what I thought the key

[00:27:35] issues would be, or what I thought we would really need to be tackling. And I had thought

[00:27:40] through, okay, here are the five potential faculty members I might call upon, but I

[00:27:46] didn't really know them. And so I was very much, I was uncomfortable, like kind of making that

[00:27:51] final call. So then reached out to my WBL network and had a few really helpful candid

[00:27:57] conversations. And three of them, I got thumbs up, two of them, I did not get thumbs up.

[00:28:02] But then I got, okay, but here's an alternative you can think about. Great information. And oh,

[00:28:06] by the way, one of your hypotheses isn't quite right. I don't know that I agree with

[00:28:10] that. Have you thought about it this way? And so, and you can do that in 30 minutes,

[00:28:15] very efficient, because I think every WBL member really does, you know, you don't have to worry

[00:28:19] about like warming up the relationship per se. You can just kind of go right through the thing.

[00:28:22] Yeah. The power of the network is just amazing. Okay. So Kristin, I want to close

[00:28:26] out with a couple things. So you're on this executive leadership journey,

[00:28:29] got this big new job, you're killing it. What are your best professional habits that keep you sharp?

[00:28:38] This one might sound mundane, but I stand by it. I get eight to nine hours of sleep every

[00:28:44] single night. Really? I like some people feel really excited about like staying up late and

[00:28:50] having fun and then sleeping in. I'm genuinely really excited on Friday evening. It's the one

[00:28:54] evening of the week that nobody needs anything from me at home. And so like seven o'clock,

[00:28:59] I'm like, I love you all. It's pizza night. So I'm going to bed and I go to bed at seven.

[00:29:05] Oh my God. I know that sounds atrocious. No, I'm envious. Boy, that kind of like,

[00:29:11] sleep like that would be amazing. I really believe in the power of sleep. And so that's my first

[00:29:17] really strong professional habit is, I am a recovering overachiever. I again grew up in a

[00:29:25] military family, had a strong trajectory for things. And so in my teens and in my 20s,

[00:29:31] I was somebody who would just drive myself into the ground. And I didn't really take the time

[00:29:37] sometimes to really step back and go, am I spending my energy on the right things? And I

[00:29:42] did, I felt like I was just spending my energy. And now that I'm in my 40s, my energy is pretty

[00:29:47] precious. It's not unlimited. It seems unlimited. I just want to say just like, no.

[00:29:54] The glitter in my face is working. Yeah, it's something that I'm much more thoughtful about,

[00:30:01] how I gift it. And so I think that's probably the second guide that I would give anybody else

[00:30:08] that's kind of up and coming is, if you're exhausted, so tired but satisfied, that's okay.

[00:30:15] That just means you're working hard, but you're doing work that you love. But if you're

[00:30:18] literally like, I feel like a husk of a person, I'm exhausted. Then for me,

[00:30:22] that's where I pause and I'm like, okay, I'm not spending my energy wisely. There's something

[00:30:28] here that's- Okay. So there's a good habit. So what are bad habits that you're trying to break

[00:30:31] in terms of just improvement for your professional self? Yeah. A big one for me is making sure

[00:30:39] that I protect the time for deep work. A big part of my role is amplifying the work of others

[00:30:46] and being available to my team. It's also one that I do get a lot of satisfaction out of. I

[00:30:51] genuinely love coaching, mentoring, but it does mean that my calendar can get a little out

[00:30:56] of control. Yeah, that's really hard to protect that time too. That is something that I am always

[00:31:01] actively having to course correct. So I haven't nailed that one down yet. You put it on the

[00:31:08] calendar, but then it ends up getting- Well, you are an achiever. So we know that you'll be

[00:31:13] continuing to address that. Okay. So Kristen, last question. Just as you think about

[00:31:17] your journey ahead and then the years that you'll be just working so hard with these

[00:31:21] heroes that you keep front and center for yourself, maybe just advice for others,

[00:31:27] just other aspiring people who want to be leaders someday like you. What's the advice

[00:31:32] that you would give to them? I think that for women especially, I think that there's two things

[00:31:41] that I know I've wrestled with and I see other really talented women wrestle with is

[00:31:46] you just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should. So more and more opportunities

[00:31:53] become available to you when you're excellent, but it doesn't mean you have to say yes to every

[00:31:57] single one. And then the other thing that I think women can do sometimes is we really value

[00:32:06] our committees. And I have one too. I have a personal board of directors, five people. They're

[00:32:10] my kitchen cabinet people that I'm like, okay, everybody got to huddle up. Big thing happening.

[00:32:15] I want to hear your thoughts. And that's valuable. And I think that at the end of the day though,

[00:32:20] you're the CEO of your own life. And so I think really getting clear and centered about

[00:32:28] what are the things that you want to do? What are the things that give you joy? And yes,

[00:32:32] you're going to be tired but satisfied and not exhaust you because just because you can

[00:32:37] doesn't mean you should. And if you do everything that you can do, you're going

[00:32:40] to be exhausted and you're going to be spending that energy and not really feeling that it was

[00:32:45] in service to something that kind of sets you along your own hero's journey. So I'm a big Joseph

[00:32:50] Campbell fan by the way. Joseph Campbell, the hero's journey. Okay. Well, I love it.

[00:32:56] So I will now have to pick that up, but that's sort of like management of energy

[00:33:01] because it is a finite resource. And when you have it, you can just do so much with it,

[00:33:07] whether it's in a moment or on a big project or something that you're leading. So I really

[00:33:12] appreciate you sharing that. And that has been an excellent Inspiring Women conversation.

[00:33:17] I've been speaking with Kristen Rodriguez and Kristen, thank you so much.

[00:33:21] Absolutely. Thank you for having me. This has been an episode of Inspiring

[00:33:25] Women with Lori McGrath. Please subscribe, rate and review. We are produced by Kate Cruz

[00:33:31] at Executive Podcast Solutions. More episodes can be found on inspiringwomen.show.

[00:33:37] I am Lori McGrath and thank you for listening.