We Don’t Need to Pathologize Messiness. Drs. Sipra Laddha and Jenny Schneider on the Home[ward] Grown Mentorship Series || EP. 163

[00:00:00] Yeah, no, it absolutely felt like a really safe space. And I think to just a space where I think one of my biggest takeaways is that we don't need to pathologize messiness.

[00:00:09] You know, I think as a physician, as a mom, as all these things as women entrepreneurs tend to be, when things are messy, as they often are in an early stage startup, it feels immediately like there is, you know, something that you need to be doing better or something that you're doing wrong.

[00:00:25] And I think a lot of the being able to just openly ask questions and get very transparent answers back was a lot of the normalization around like, hey, this is what it's supposed to look like.

[00:00:34] It is OK. Let's like remove the oh gosh, this looks messy and be like, yes, this is what happens and this is how you think about it.

[00:00:41] And this is how you would think about it for next time. And so yeah, I absolutely feel like it was very, very open in that way. This is inspiring women and I am very excited because we're having another episode of the Homeward grown mentoring program.

[00:01:02] So we have Dr. Jenny Schneider and she is the CEO and founder of Homeward and we have Dr. Sipra Luda, who is the CEO and co-founder of Luna Joy. And we're going to be talking about Sipra's experience with this mentoring program.

[00:01:18] It's a little bit different in terms of what's being done with Homeward and doctors Jenny and Sipra, I'm so happy to be talking to you today. Thanks for having me, Lori. Jenny, let's you know, we've done this before.

[00:01:33] This is the second in the series with with Homeward Grown and it's a two part program that you've created. You are an exceptionally busy CEO and founder and high growth, well decorated person in this industry.

[00:01:48] Yet this was a very purposeful program that you put together when you launched it last year. Homeward Grown, tell us about the mentoring program. Yes. Well, again, thanks for hosting us here.

[00:02:02] I'm excited to first of all to share her story and her journey about her company's the highlight here. Homeward Grown actually has two different parts. One is an internal investment for female leaders who are up and coming.

[00:02:15] We talk about development topics such as we just did one in presenting. We did one in negotiating and we do some exposure to other people in the industry and that's internal.

[00:02:25] Equally, I'm very invested in female founders and there are not enough of us in the ecosystem and the health care ecosystem. And those of us that have been in the ecosystem have a lot of scars that are useful to others.

[00:02:39] And so creating this environment to be able to have frank conversations from A to Z, whatever it is that you need help with is really the intention of the Homeward Grown mentoring program.

[00:02:51] And as such, I mentor four people a year, one for each quarter, but with endless access from there on out, but really structured format to really just address and answer questions that are top of mind for female founders at their stage of their journey for their particular company.

[00:03:07] And so this last quarter, I had a chance to work with Cipra. And from my vantage point, it was so exciting to get to choose separate to come in because not only is she an incredibly thoughtful entrepreneur,

[00:03:20] but she's also a practicing physician and so lives firsthand what that real life component is in the clinic. And so really excited for Cipra and her journey. And she'll tell you more about Luna Joy.

[00:03:32] Yeah, well, I want to get into all of that, but I also want to pause for just one second because one of the things that we know about just in terms of women in leadership

[00:03:40] and building companies is that it's hard and it's extra hard. If you're a woman, there's not enough of them. There's not enough of you who are being successful in what you do.

[00:03:50] And Jenny, for you to actually as somebody who has done it more than once to actually take the time to bring others with you is I think the leadership journey

[00:04:00] that the reason we're showcasing it here on inspiring women is we want others to understand this program and hopefully mimic it because it's so incredibly both compelling

[00:04:09] and important. So, Cipra, you have an amazing journey. And as I look into your background, I want to know everything about Luna Joy.

[00:04:18] But just maybe if you give us a little bit of your bio sketch. I mean, I understand it's like medicine chose you is how you talk about how you got into medicine in the first place.

[00:04:28] Yes. No, absolutely. I think I've always been doomed to be a doctor like since before. Loved every part of it. But yeah, so I'm I'm super loud. I'm a reproductive psychiatrist by training.

[00:04:42] So, you know, originally from New York moved to Atlanta for training have been here for the last almost 10 years and really focused my time prior to starting

[00:04:52] Luna Joy on psychiatry on pregnancy, postpartum related mental health care and worked both in private practice as well as the health system.

[00:05:00] I think I really got to see a lot of the women's mental health issues up close and personal treating patients, treating patients within a system, treating patients outpatient.

[00:05:08] But probably the biggest defining portion of my journey was really the journey to motherhood myself. So I was a resident when I was pregnant with twins. They were mono die high risk twins. And so that was the time that I was getting my perinatal specialization.

[00:05:22] And it was just a really riveting time for me because I was going through, you know, my own health journey, my own mental health journey.

[00:05:28] And then I was also taking care of moms that were pregnant and postpartum and just started to recognize some really key holes around women getting access to care.

[00:05:37] You know, I certainly found myself at six months postpartum in the midst of postpartum depression and anxiety that had really started during pregnancy kind of wondering the whole time, the whole journey.

[00:05:46] When I was going to get screened, when someone was going to offer help, when I was supposed to try to find this help.

[00:05:52] And even when I was trying to find the help like all the barriers that I had, even with a ton of resources and then watching my patients kind of struggle where the wait time to get into clinic was over a year for often, you know, a lot of patients.

[00:06:06] And I still wasn't even seeing the majority of people that needed to get it and get access. So that was a long time ago. It was 10 years ago. My twins are about to turn 10 in two weeks, which is wild.

[00:06:17] And you know, I had singletons after that and went through very similar journeys just in different settings.

[00:06:23] And it's really what inspired me to build LunaJoy to really build around this pain point that we have in reproductive psychiatry, bring OB care and family medicine care together with psychiatry to use technology in order to get information.

[00:06:38] And data back and forth in order to do care navigation and then deliver really specialized care to this population that often, you know, the statistics are horrible. But they don't get the care that they need.

[00:06:50] Cypher, just reproductive psychology, like mental health. We all are hearing mental health every day. But where does this begin? Where does this end? And what are the issues that require a specialized approach to mental health care?

[00:07:09] Yeah, so this actually begins a lot earlier than people think it begins when we talk about postpartum depression. We're often thinking about just after delivery.

[00:07:17] But reproductive psychiatry actually begins from the moment that that person is thinking about conceiving or getting pregnant through a fertility and fertility journey, through thinking through what a pregnancy might look like.

[00:07:30] And so really kind of preparing that woman to have the best possible outcome. So if they already have depression, anxiety or other disorders, really optimizing that journey for them.

[00:07:41] Screening proactively during pregnancy. Now the new ACOG guidelines we ask every single or we're supposed to be asking every single trimester instead of just waiting till the train has already left the station.

[00:07:51] But really any woman that's pregnant, postpartum thinking about conceiving is in some journey to conceive is what I think about is reproductive psychiatry. And we want to be starting these conversations as early as possible.

[00:08:03] That is great. So when did you hear about the Homeward Grown program? And how did this happen? How did this connection between you and Jenny actually begin, happen, get selected, all that?

[00:08:18] Yeah, so I actually went through Y Combinator in 2022 and it was just such a great community. I think it was probably one of my biggest early accelerants to going from being a practicing physician that was seeing the same problem over and over and over again to having a scaled solution that we were iterating and out in the market and testing.

[00:08:38] And the one thing that I took from that is like community was probably, I learned a lot. You know, it's an interesting time. There's an interesting set of people that you're around, but really having that community of other innovators and group partners was like the number one kind of key to our success.

[00:08:55] So were those three transformative months. And so after we left YC, I had been looking for more of those experiences. I think just looking for like that same power, you know, that exists when you have people around you that have been there, that have done it, that are willing to share.

[00:09:11] And I saw a post by Nikita, who is, you know, a fellow YC founder. And she had just written it up so beautifully in terms of her time with Jenny and what was valuable about it. And as soon as I read the post, I mean, I immediately like put down my list of questions.

[00:09:28] I want some of that.

[00:09:29] I want to find out about this program. When are they having their next cohort? How do I apply? And when I remember like the day that the application became available, I was like, okay, I have to go get it taken care of. And there were probably 25 things on my TD list.

[00:09:43] So it was just really high priority for me to find out more about the program, to participate in the program that, you know, if I could. And I think it really just embodied a lot of that mentorship that I had been looking for a lot of the mentorship that I hope to be able to give as well.

[00:09:58] Yep. And Jenny, so I mean you get lots of these applications and reach out. So what stood out to you about Cipra that you thought that this will be a great place to invest time and energy?

[00:10:10] It's a really great question. And again, one of the joys that I have is actually getting to read the applications because I get a sense not only who's in the entrepreneurial ecosystem, but the types of problems they're trying to tackle.

[00:10:23] And so for me, it's a combination of getting to think through both the person and the problem. And what for me do I think one is can I get behind and can I find a joy? And what do I think I can actually uniquely help with?

[00:10:37] Because there are certain things that I might not be great at. And so it's a little bit of a one way matchmaking mission, if you will.

[00:10:43] And as I said to you, so certainly maternal health is something as I'm a mom of three. Many, many of us who listen or are on your podcast, Lori, are mothers.

[00:10:55] And so I think that touches a lot of heartstrings, but also recognize the need in that ecosystem. And then as I mentioned earlier, I'm particularly proud of and fond of physicians who become entrepreneurs because the training you get as a physician, you are intimate with the existing healthcare ecosystem.

[00:11:12] And you have to totally go and create something different, given your experience. And so this idea around having personal connections and separate talked about hers, but also understanding that ecosystem and what works because it's not all bad.

[00:11:27] But what doesn't work is I think a really key component of successful entrepreneurs and you can be a physician or surround yourself with the knowledge. But again, those were the things that made me really excited to get it have a chance to work with separate.

[00:11:41] Yeah. And you know, look, I want to throw into this conversation almost a little bit of, you know, personal behind the scenes information.

[00:11:49] You know, I was excited about this as well from that physician entrepreneur connection, but also as a mother as a new grandmother who with a daughter who is going through some of the things that separate you're talking about in terms of the issue.

[00:12:05] So, so I'm hearing all of your very professional sounding words and descriptions about reproductive psychology and mental health. But I am thinking about that in a really personal way.

[00:12:17] So one of the things I really wanted to ask both of you in, in terms of the things that you connected on from a, you know, whether it was just open conversations. What did the mentorship experience? What did it look like this time?

[00:12:33] Was it separate maybe from your perspective? Was it similar to other mentorship experiences you've had or was it different? And if it was different, how is it different?

[00:12:44] Yeah, I think this is probably one of the deepest mentorship experiences that I had and I really appreciated that because I feel like I brought new and different problems to every session with Jenny and she was always just ready to tackle whatever it was that I was going to throw at her.

[00:12:58] And the other thing that I really appreciated is it really did feel like a space where we can, you know, kind of take off all the ways that we're supposed to show up and present ourselves as invaluable and having all the answers and the expert in the room and really just be able to like talk honestly about

[00:13:13] some of the pain points about where we're struggling and both personal and professional, you know, it's I think especially as women. And, you know, I know I spent a lot of time making sure that I'm well compartmentalized and that when I'm doing work, I'm doing work and when I'm doing home, I'm doing home.

[00:13:28] But, you know, certainly being an entrepreneur is not separate from having a family and running my household and, you know, the responsibilities of having four kids and just figuring out not even balance because there is no balance but just integration and how to really make sure that we're aligning priorities with what's important to the business and what's important to me personally.

[00:13:48] So, you know, I think there was mentorship around a lot of different topics which I found to be very helpful and what I really appreciated is that there was depth and really like transparency in every session.

[00:14:02] How'd you go to every conversation? Did you come with like a laundry list, the Hey Jenny list or, you know, like what was important to you to bring to those conversations and Jenny, what were your expectations and how were those either met or, you know, changed based on how things evolve during your time together?

[00:14:21] Yeah, so I did a combination of both and I'm curious what Jenny has to say about this but I did prepare for every session. You know, I wanted to make sure that I use the time really effectively and so I always had a list of like four or five things that I want to address or a cluster of things that I'd been thinking about and wanting to get feedback on and then always kind of left a little bit of time at the end to ask Jenny probably like an overly open ended question just to see how she would respond and where she went with that and so I think we got a good mix of, you know, having structure.

[00:14:50] And then also like, you know, I took pages and pages of notes and I'm not usually a note taker but I did find almost everything to be really, really valuable.

[00:15:00] Yeah, and so from my viewpoint and separate talked about this like I think so often as an entrepreneur when you're learning and we're all learning we're all learning all the time. You're surrounded by people that you're also trying to impress.

[00:15:14] So I think about like you have a board of directors and they're often investors which means you're going to pitch them in another round and so like even your board meetings where you're talking about business problems you're also always still selling.

[00:15:24] And I think when you're wearing your selling hat, it is hard to kind of say hey look this is really broken I don't know what to do here.

[00:15:31] And, and this, this format allows a trust or a different venue to just like raise your hand and say look these are the things that I love your thoughts on I'm not sure about without having any judgment without having any repercussion around the role that you're playing.

[00:15:48] And so for me, it. And this is in separate noses it's like I don't really, I don't really care what the question is like and this is intended not for me but for separate. And so it's like, it can be anything in a spectrum and separate did that, and that was like to me

[00:16:03] what is successful it's not. I read this academic article and you know what do you think about the positioning and x y z it's like actually like, no today I woke up and like these like three people told me they're going to quit because they said like, you know, it's like the tactical to the strategic

[00:16:17] it's just everything that you go through as a founder and an entrepreneur. And when you're going, even multiple times there's still you want to sounding board and that is so to me success just looks like showing up and asking the things that are top of mind that you could use a

[00:16:33] sounding board on. That's it. Yep, I also think you know one of the point you just made about boards because like all boards and all investors are I mean they mean it when they say they're here to support you and everything else and that is true.

[00:16:49] That is true to not 100% all the way there because of exactly what you just said Jenny you're always selling you're needing to make sure that you're sharp and that you can handle the unexpected or the difficult things.

[00:17:06] So separate did it feel like just like a safe space for you. That's what I'm kind of assuming is like you could like let your guard down a little bit and you know ask the you know whether it was prepared questions or not but a little bit of just like I'm struggling here.

[00:17:21] I don't know if that you tell me. Yeah, no it absolutely felt like a really safe space and I think to just a space where I think one of my biggest takeaways is that we don't need to pathologize messiness.

[00:17:32] You know I think as a physician as a mom is all these things as women entrepreneurs tend to be when things are messy as they often are in an early stage startup it feels immediately like there is, you know, something that you need to be doing better or something that you're doing wrong

[00:17:48] and I think a lot of the being able to just openly ask questions and get very transparent answers back was a lot of the normalization around like hey this is what it's supposed to look like it is okay let's like remove the oh gosh this looks messy and be like yes this is what happens and this is how you think about it and this is how you would think about it for next time.

[00:18:05] And so yeah I absolutely feel like it was very, very open in that way.

[00:18:11] And so Sifra how did you were able to take those mentoring sessions and immediately put them to work inside your company? How did that work and how were you able to whether you did or you didn't? I'd just love to know how that translated to helping you build your business.

[00:18:29] Yeah absolutely so I feel like many things were really actionable and a lot of things were just like different ways of thinking about you know situations or problems or questions that we were having and so after almost every single session with Jenny I wrote like a little TLDR to my co-founder Shema because we've switched to.

[00:18:48] TLDR okay okay okay. Too long don't read. I was like right? I need to keep up with the lingo okay.

[00:18:55] Yes because she always wanted to know like what was the takeaway from Jenny but didn't want to hear you know my 45 minute like run through all of my specific notes.

[00:19:03] And I think really to both of us it was very helpful even in terms of like conceptualizing problems or thinking about things differently and you know it certainly like changed a lot of the ways that we even started evaluating certain candidates for positions that were open and things like that so yeah I think it was very actionable.

[00:19:19] Yep and then Jenny you know the thing like again you know how much I admire you putting this program together as just like an example for others.

[00:19:28] I just you know in your life things have only gotten busier right? Your company continues to grow. You continue to take on additional activities whether they're board positions or other.

[00:19:41] So just tell me about like how your energy level sort of like you know was there for this program whether you're just like oh gosh did this ever become a task for you? Like I can't believe I have this on my calendar today.

[00:19:56] Yeah so I am I'm a big believer and I know you are as well Lori but like when you say something matters it's nice to say it but you should take action against it or it doesn't really matter.

[00:20:07] And which is why I think you have this podcast and so this idea like we all would generally agree there's not enough women entrepreneurs, there's not enough women being backed by venture.

[00:20:16] Agree but very few people actually then do something about it and so this is to me the do something about it. So when I stop caring about those things then I probably won't do anything about them but I continue to care about those things so I continue to do something about them.

[00:20:30] Okay and there's something about Jenny. I mean Sipper you already know this there's some some endless energy pill that um that you know luck. Some people have it and Jenny certainly does.

[00:20:43] Sipper this it's a program that has a beginning and it has time and then it has an end. And so um it's at the ending point now so how are you going to keep that sort of like goodness that came out of this experience for what you still might want or need as a CEO growing a company?

[00:21:09] Yeah and I already kind of like set the framework Jenny I think at the last meeting which was like I would love to touch base with you in three or four months and continue that cadence and so kind of already booked Mark that I'm probably going to be taking a little bit more of her time over time.

[00:21:24] And I you know I have a little notebook and I still come up with questions and I kind of put in my list of things that I want to ask Jenny about and so when I do have those touch bases or when I compile enough of those things you know sending off an email but I definitely um you know have not seen this as short term and I hope to be asking Jenny questions for many years.

[00:21:44] Yeah and I actually want to make another statement which is um so Sipra is giving forward as well and I know that because she and I were both on a female entrepreneurship panel at our alma mater Johns Hopkins and so it was so wonderful to see Sipra who's raising four children and building a business also paying forward her own experiences in the ecosystem to other interested females.

[00:22:08] So again it speaks to this generative power in the flywheel of starting to do something and then it starts to continue to expand so we can you know do what we all collectively want to do in the ecosystem.

[00:22:21] I wanted to ask you both about sort of the secret powers of you know both being you know this intersectionality of being entrepreneurs being business people being physicians and being mothers.

[00:22:35] I think you know we spend a lot of time in inspiring women talking about what things might be sort of you know tropes or obstacles or you know just issues in terms of biases that out there that are out there.

[00:22:47] Yeah just the way you talk about it Sipra in terms of like how you created Luna Luna Joy and Jenny certainly you know how you talk about yourself.

[00:22:57] It's mom first before anything else. I just love your thoughts on like the superpowers that those things that you are you know how those help you build your businesses because I feel like we don't talk about that enough.

[00:23:10] We talk about the issues but we don't talk about the power of it. I just love your thoughts on that.

[00:23:15] I'm happy to start so I am biased. I'm very biased here but I think the opportunity to be a mom for me has been the single most developing characteristic to be a successful entrepreneur because I am the CEO of my household.

[00:23:34] I am everyday inventing and trying new things with teenage children who are themselves testing and trying new things.

[00:23:43] I have a lot of failures. I have some successes and every day I get back up and I do it again and to me that is the journey of being an entrepreneur.

[00:23:53] Yeah I would agree with that. I think that motherhood and not to like overly simplify it but you know I think about that first year that I had twins where I was a resident working like 60 to 80 hours a week and they would both be up in the middle of the night and crying and need things all day and like if there's ever a lesson in really just figuring out how to prioritize, get stuff done, figure out what's important, figure out what's going to kill you, what's not going to kill you, what you can wait until tomorrow to do, what you must do right now.

[00:24:21] I do think it is a lot of those like early and middle and later learnings of motherhood and then I think the other thing is there is this quality and I'm going to generalize but when I see physician entrepreneurs, when I see female and mother entrepreneurs, I think there's this quality of relentlessness that serves us very well where if I'm doing something I am all in because my time is really valuable and so if I'm going to put time towards it like I'm there, I'm there 100%, I'm going to take it and I'm going to be there.

[00:24:51] I'm going to take it to the end and that's I feel like the same energy that I've brought to LunaJoy. I think it's part of the reason that we have scaled so quickly and that we have built so quickly. We are two and a half almost three years into our journey.

[00:25:03] We've seen over 3,000 patients or seven states and I think part of the reason that we've had that success, my co-founder is a physician entrepreneur as well and mom of two kiddos and I think we've just been super super focused about being focused and moving the needle and really not wasting a minute.

[00:25:21] There are no minutes to waste.

[00:25:23] Yep, well I love that and again just as somebody who is newly speaking with the lens of a grandmother looking at my daughter trying to put all these pieces together in her life and maybe she'll be a LunaJoy patient just as she figures things out right now.

[00:25:43] But let's just close out on a couple comments.

[00:25:46] Cypra, I'd love to know just as you move forward and build LunaJoy what you're taking from this experience that you think is the advice you want other CEOs to know, what they should be looking for in mentorship that really is powerful for you to be the CEO that you are today and expect to be tomorrow.

[00:26:10] Yeah, so I mean I think what I would want other people to know who are thinking about entrepreneurship and all that is like sharing support actually doesn't take a lot of time.

[00:26:23] It's like no more kind of off of your beacon of things that you're doing to give five minutes or to give seven minutes to someone else or even just to respond to an email or tell someone that you like their idea.

[00:26:35] I think a lot of the reason again that we've gotten to the place that we've gotten is because we have had the right mentorship and the right honestly female entrepreneurs that we've been able to surround ourselves with that have just nudged us in the right direction or even just said keep going.

[00:26:52] Like sometimes you just need to hear a keep going. You know, I know all of these seven things are really difficult but like it's okay. It's one difficult day. Just keep going.

[00:27:00] And so I think lending any of that you don't need to be the smartest person in the room. You don't have to have like the right answer to whatever that colossal question is that person is trying to answer but you know just showing up and giving a little bit of time advice or support in any way.

[00:27:17] I think really goes a long way. Awesome. And Jenny your thoughts. I mean, just as you continue to build this program and you think about your next cohort. What are you thinking?

[00:27:28] Yeah, I think you know, I think it's easier to be a mentor than it is to be a mentee. And I think there's an art to being a mentee and I would highlight separate around understanding what it is that you want to get out of the time with someone else.

[00:27:43] And we should all be good mentees because we there are all we all have people from whom we can learn. And so that approach and that attitude I think is really important in being proactive in that for me too.

[00:27:57] I think for all of us, I think that's you know when I think about mentorship, we often think about the mentor, but I think the onus and kind of the map to maximize it's what do you what does the mentee want to get out of the relationship and what do they bring into the relationship?

[00:28:12] What types of questions? How do they want to kind of leverage that? I think it's something we don't talk enough about in the ecosystem.

[00:28:20] Well, I think in this conversation there is a lot of rich advice from both sides of the mentorship equation and Cypra it really sounds like you were excellent to have both have had this opportunity.

[00:28:36] But what you're taking bringing it towards Luna joy as well as your giving of your own time to others is amazing because I know you don't have time.

[00:28:48] I know you don't have time and that's what to me. I like the flywheel effect that this is creating. So I just want to thank you both.

[00:28:55] This has been an unbelievable inspiring women conversation. We have been talking about the homeward grown mentoring series. I've been speaking with Dr Cypra Luta and Dr Jenny Schneider and thank you both so much.

[00:29:09] Thank you, Lori for all that you do and congratulations on being a grandmother. I did not know that. So that was my favorite fun fact from this. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:29:18] This has been an episode of inspiring women with Lori McGraw. Please subscribe, rate and review. We are produced by Kate Cruz at Executive Podcast Solutions. More episodes can be found on inspiringwomen.show. I am Lori McGraw and thank you for listening.