Women, Healthcare & Affordability: Courtney Gray Haupt on Trust in a Divisive World & the Employer’s Role || EP. 190

[00:00:00] Hey listeners, I'm speaking with Courtney Gray Haupt on this Inspiring Women episode and she is the Global Health Co-Chair and US Chair for Health at Edelman. In this conversation, we're talking about Edelman's recent survey on trust and their trust barometer. What does the United States population, who do they trust? Do they trust their employer? Do they trust their doctors? Do they trust their neighbors?

[00:00:28] Who do they trust in terms of where they get their information? And in this day and age, you're not going to be surprised about some of these results. Trust is down in some of our major institutions like government or people that we used to trust in the institutions that were in our communities. We find from the conversation from Courtney that trust where it is lower, those reasons often have to be a little bit more.

[00:00:58] What does that have to do with trends like social media? What does a lot of divisive nature in terms of conversations that are out there? And then also, why in the world of health, health and care is trust important? The answer is because if you don't trust the information that you're going to be given, your behavior in terms of how you show up or take under advisement, how you take care of yourself changes.

[00:01:28] So things like vaccine hesitancy or where trust is lower, we're finding that outcomes are impacted and most often in a very, very significantly negative way. So what's an organization to do? One of the great things about this thorough study from Edelman on the trust barometer, Courtney talks about some of the steps that you can take to actually improve trust.

[00:01:57] That means transparency, putting forward, where do you get your information? How is data being shaped in terms of how it is being served up and provided to you? The conversation that Courtney and I had was at a conference where we were talking to many large health employers.

[00:02:15] I'm sorry, many large employers, as well as health plans and how they can strategically take the information from the trust barometer survey from Edelman, shape their communication strategies to improve trust, which ultimately will lead to improved outcomes for their members and team members. And with that, let's now talk to Courtney.

[00:02:40] People are now saying, especially younger adults, if my healthcare provider doesn't share my political beliefs, I might stop seeing them and I wouldn't trust their guidance. So it's a really, it's a really interesting and concerning development as we're just thinking about the state of sort of where that's this polarization is.

[00:03:04] This is Inspiring Women. I'm Lori McGraw and I'm speaking with Courtney Grayhop and she is the global U.S. chair at Edelman. And we're going to be actually talking about Edelman's really important new trust barometer story. They've been studying trust and what it means for many years. And Courtney, thank you for being on Inspiring Women. Oh, it's such a pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Well, you're welcome, but let's get into it. Courtney, just tell us a little bit about what you do at Edelman.

[00:03:31] Absolutely. So I am the global co-chair for health across our global sector, and I also lead our U.S. business. So I have the opportunity to work with healthcare organizations of all shapes and sizes. So whether that's working with people in the provider space, working with hospitals and health systems, working with biotech and pharma companies, working with all kinds of nonprofits and foundations across the space. And one of the reasons I love doing that is that we really get to then understand what do different audiences and stakeholder groups really need?

[00:04:01] And if we're thinking about that ultimate goal of improving health outcomes and healthy behaviors, how can we really think about the different needs and concerns of different audiences? How do we get them the data and the information and the tools they need to make healthy decisions? And how do we really bring together different organizations and partners to think about the solutions that we all need to come at together? So I get to do a lot of those things.

[00:04:23] Courtney, as a professional and leader in the space, so Edelman is the largest, maybe one of the largest, but the largest PR firms. But let's talk about sort of like, you know, how important that is in today's day and age. Where do people get information? Are they getting it from trusted sources? Are they getting their health information from places that, you know, physicians or other places?

[00:04:46] I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of just like the communications challenge is really the cultural challenge right now, which is that people are getting information from more sources than ever before. But they also have declining trust in institutions that are providing that information. So if you think about what we've seen over the past 25 years that we've been looking at trust collectively across Edelman, you look at just the past year where we've seen a decline in trust in all of the institutions.

[00:05:11] And by that, I mean business, NGOs and nonprofits, the government and the media. And especially on the media, we've seen a plummet in trust in the media. So if people do not any longer trust the media, where are they getting that information from? Even more so when it comes to health issues, where are they getting that information from? We know that thankfully, health care professionals and my own personal doctor are like the most trusted source of information. But not for all people. Not for all people.

[00:05:40] There's a lot of that varies based on who you are, maybe some of your experience with the health care system. Maybe your status as a citizen within this country. It does. And so for many people, if you have higher trust in the health care system right now, the doctor does become a very trusted source. But if you have lower trust, interestingly, that won't be the number one source. My employer actually is because people really turn to their employer for sources of all kinds of information. So there's a lot of value in looking at that.

[00:06:09] Third, though, we have a lot of people that turn to family and friends for health information. And we saw a rise several years ago of family and friends like really rocketing up the list of trusted health experts, as people were saying, which really opens the door to where are people getting information? Is it actually accurate information? And how do we make sure that we're helping people to understand what it means, what the right course of treatment for them might be? How do you take that information you've heard and actually vet it so that you know if it's the right information?

[00:06:37] Courtney, let's just maybe – I want to actually talk about some of those things. I want to go back a little bit. So 15 years at Edelman, your background. I mean, you are clearly – I mean, you are here. We're here at the Voyages Transparent inaugural conference. You were a speaker on stage as a thought leader and an expert. Can we just, like, talk a little bit about your background and where that expertise was grounded from? I've had such a great arc of trying out new things across my career.

[00:07:06] The common denominator has been health care, though, across the board. So I started out actually working much more in health policy and advocacy, government relations, but doing a lot of work that really hit home with patient advocacy organizations and also trying to advance different kinds of policy measures so you could see the direct impact. As I kept doing that, the interesting common denominator also was communications. I started seeing what a tool that was and how important it was to really think about different audiences and how you're reaching them.

[00:07:34] So I moved from that government affairs world into communications and public relations. And doing that, also working across public affairs as part of that, really then led me to Edelman eventually. And moving through the sort of the path there, I led our health policy team and our Washington office for many years, which really let me think about how do we stand up campaigns that help people come together to look at those solutions that we're trying to get.

[00:07:59] And now, as I continued through that, got to move into the role I have, which works across this global team where I really get to work with just some of the most exciting organizations and really people on the front lines having an impact on health care. And then probably the most important thing I feel I get to do is working with organizations on how we're building trust in health care and talking about this kind of data and what it really means for different companies.

[00:08:26] So on that issue of trust, let's talk about a couple of the factors that go into that. So first of all, there's content overload and there's a lot of misinformation. You said on stage a stunning, took my breath away statistic that you said that 55% of young adults have made a bad health care decision based on misinformation.

[00:08:52] So can you just like talk about sort of like, you know, some of those underlying factors before we get to trust? Absolutely. And I think when we looked at that number, that's in the U.S. And it's shocking. Globally, you take it a step out, it's 40%. Still just such a shocking number. And it really speaks to the moment that we're in. We also wanted to look at sort of what were the drivers of that misinformation and what people self-reported, the number one sort of location of that misinformation they said was coming from product advertisements, which includes all formats.

[00:09:20] So it would definitely include social in the conversations we were having. People were getting misinformation from friends and family. So they recognized that even if they're turning to friends and family for information, maybe it's not always accurate. And then also user-generated content. So people are really thinking about I'm online, I'm watching videos, I'm reading different content people are putting there. Maybe I should be skeptical of that. So I think the good news is there's an awareness, but the reality is, to your point, information is coming from everywhere.

[00:09:48] And if you're not looking necessarily at getting it from a health care professional, if you don't necessarily trust a national health authority to the extent you used to, people are now getting it in different sources. And the biggest challenge becomes we know people are looking for information on their own more than ever, but not necessarily vetting it as well. Well, people don't know how to vet it. They don't. You're right.

[00:10:11] I mean, there's no, for me, I am somebody who's been in health care for over 30 years, and I do the same thing as everybody does. I Google something. Right. And I have this sort of like inherent level of like thinking that the first thing that pops up, you know, is the right thing. Well, I know as, you know, somebody who works in the area of technology, that's 100% not true. Right, right. And I think a lot of it becomes, okay, so what are we collectively looking at to help improve and address that?

[00:10:40] I think it's a topic of conversation we're having here right now. And I think it's such a place where you've got to bring different organizations and stakeholders together because a lot of it is thinking holistically about a constant flow of the right information in a way that's really easy to understand. And we asked people to think about sort of where they were, if they already had high trust or low trust in the health system and the kinds of places they were looking for information.

[00:11:04] And what we found was if you had high trust already, you were looking for information at perhaps a national health authority to get information. If you had lower trust, you were turning to friends and family. We also wanted to understand like the kinds of information people wanted and just like thinking of like verbiage and things like that. Higher trusted individuals said, I need to understand it. No jargon. Make it really clear so I can understand it and action on it. People with lower trust said, I need to understand the sources of where it's coming from. What are your credentials?

[00:11:33] Why should I believe you? And then I want to be able to ask questions. Did they ask that of everyone though? I mean, do they ask that? They certainly don't ask it of friends and family, but they probably ask it of their government officials or, you know, larger, larger scale organizations. Absolutely. I think it's for those people that they are finding the information. They don't yet know you. They do want to validate and understand, you know, do you have bias? Do I think you might understand where I'm coming from? Yeah. That interestingly plays out with some of the data that we saw related to people and their healthcare providers.

[00:12:03] And if we think about the polarized environment that we're in, you know, people are concerned about even healthcare providers having the same kind of beliefs. Which is usually the highest trust person, you know, who's giving you information about your health. It is. And people are now saying, especially younger adults, if my healthcare provider doesn't share my political beliefs, I might stop seeing them and I wouldn't trust their guidance. Wow. So it's a really, it's a really interesting and concerning development as we're just thinking about the state of sort of where that's, this polarization is.

[00:12:33] Thinking about that though, these results that you're talking about from the Edelman Trust Barometer survey that you've done, it makes sense. I'm hearing you give this information and I can say, okay, that makes sense to me in the environment that we're in. And is there anything from the Barometer survey that you did that surprised you?

[00:12:53] Well, I think the brand new data that we just launched last week really speaks to the current environment and where we've moved from an environment last year that was very polarized. Yeah. Where we saw definitely sort of people feeling separated from others into an environment that we're really looking at as a crisis of grievance. People have taken that and they are now feeling that institutions and individuals are really in an opposite place than them.

[00:13:19] Looking at this as a zero sum situation where we are on opposite sides if we don't share the same beliefs. And if you win, I lose. And these grievances, it's really leading to a situation where people are thinking that we can't get to common ground. And I have concerns that the government, that business leaders, that others are just on an opposite place than me. And I have grievances against you. So how are we really addressing that?

[00:13:47] I think while that feels like something we're seeing in the current environment, it was surprising to the extent that it was coming through. How much it actually moved. That probably gives us a good predictor for the future because we do in this political environment or divisive environment that we're in, grievances is almost a tactic, it seems. And that is there.

[00:14:10] So if you think about that and with this information at hand, how are you advising people to build trust? Because the whole thing for whether it's brand loyalty or trying to advance your company's mission, products, whatever, is about wanting to have some sort of confidence, trust in what they're delivering. So how do you advise folks to build that? A couple things I would share.

[00:14:35] First of all, sharing information that is accurate and high quality is the number one way that organizations can build and strengthen trust. If people see that you're doing that and if you're doing it also with partners, it's a great place to be working with your partners to think about how you are getting that information, the data, the stories of impact out there to share. It's also really important that people see that you are taking action to address challenges, especially if there is a problem that you are seen as being part of.

[00:15:02] How are you showing tangible action and commitment to at least looking at how do we improve things? How can we work together to get to solutions? People do want to see that. Another thing, and this is heartening, is that people do want to see a more optimistic future. And so by working together in ways that have people feel that there is economic optimism coming, how can we work on helping people to learn new skills that improve their economic opportunities and employment opportunities? These are all ways that organizations can be stepping in.

[00:15:29] And in healthcare especially, if we think about how are we looking at information that makes it really easy for people to understand how is health advancing? What do I need to understand for myself and my family? That information intersection is a challenge that organizations can really lean in together and solve. Courtney, this is inspiring women. And so my mission in terms of inspiring women is to help advance the next generation of women into leadership.

[00:15:57] When you also talk about trust and building trust, you actually talked about the special role that women actually have to play in sort of squaring this circle of becoming more divisive, lower trust in certain areas. And women, at least what I heard, is have a role that maybe could help. What are your thoughts there? I think the role of the woman in healthcare we've talked about for years and years, so important. The health decisions they help to make, how they oversee the family.

[00:16:23] What I thought was really interesting in some of the data we had was looking at sort of where some of the gender differences were when it came to who you trust and sort of those concerns that women and men have. We found that when it comes to trusting in my employer, for men and women, there is incredibly high trust in my employer as helping to find solutions to healthcare and to get the right kinds of information. But for women especially, my employer is the only institution that is trusted in that regard.

[00:16:50] And when you sort of move beyond and look at business or government and others, that trust really plummets in a way we don't see exactly the same levels for men. So for women and for employers to think about employees that are women but also their families, that's an incredibly important audience for them to think about.

[00:17:07] We also looked at some of those concerns, and we found that when we asked people to think last year about their largest health concerns, the polarization and the politicization of health and science is the number one concern that people globally had. It increased 13% from year to year. But what we found with women was the number two concern was about the affordability of healthcare. And they were concerned about it 20 points higher than men were, which was just so surprising to think there could be such a joke. Well, they're the ones who are making the majority.

[00:17:37] 80% of the decisions in healthcare are made by the mothers, the sisters, the aunts, the caretakers who are largely women. And that completely underscores it and I think really speaks to where we need to think about how we're talking about solutions and opportunities and information that can speak to affordability and cost but also value. How are we thinking about how all of those come together as well as convenience and time and the other parts that are so important as you think about sort of that family time and economic budget.

[00:18:04] And then I think the last part is really thinking then about women, not just in one sort of collective, but then really going deep into micro communities to think about the different concerns and needs of women across the board in different communities, different generations and such, so that we can then really be thoughtful in solutions and letting people know we're listening, we're hearing, and now we're going to work together to find different paths and opportunities that lead to solutions.

[00:18:28] Well, Courtney, this is an incredible amount of information on this trust study as well as the other things that you're talking about in terms of trends in this environment. Maybe as we close out this Inspiring Women conversation, with all of this data that you have and all the experience that you have over the years, there are a lot of reasons to not be optimistic and there are a lot of challenges for us to face.

[00:18:53] Maybe you could close us with sort of like, not to be Pollyanna about anything, but if there's one thing that you would like other leaders like yourself to take from this conversation, what would you like them to act on, learn more about, or do? I agree with you that it's a moment when it could feel very easily overwhelmed by all of the data and the challenges that we see. I think still at the root of what we've seen about trust is that coming together with others to solve challenges,

[00:19:23] really leading to solutions is something that every organization and every leader can be thinking about. And there is such an opportunity to build trust when you show that you are authentically and thoughtfully engaging and looking for those solutions. And I think for leaders specifically to think about how you are showing not just employees, but that wider community around you, that you are listening, taking action, and then sharing information.

[00:19:48] I think it's such a tangible action to think about how you're communicating and showing the impact of things that you're doing, that your organization does, and your personal commitment. And I hope people really take that to heart and think about how that becomes part of what they're doing, both within their organizations and externally. Wow. Well, that's such great information. And I so appreciate you sharing, not just the research that you've done, the study that you've put forward about trust, but also your advice. I mean, this is really good practical advice for other leaders out there.

[00:20:18] This has been a great Inspiring Women conversation. I've been speaking with Courtney Gray-Hop. And Courtney, thank you so much. Thank you. This has been an episode of Inspiring Women with Lori McGraw. Please subscribe, rate, and review. We are produced at Executive Podcast Solutions. More episodes can be found on inspiringwomen.show. I am Lori McGraw, and thank you for listening.