RaDonda Vaught Seeks Nursing License Reinstatement

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[00:00:38] You're listening to Ask Nurse Alice presented by Nurse.org, where Alice Benjamin combines

[00:00:44] no nonsense advice with thought-provoking interviews.

[00:00:49] Hello and welcome to the Ask Nurse Alice podcast to show we talk about anything and everything

[00:00:54] nursing and healthcare related.

[00:00:56] I'm your host Alice Benjamin, clinical nurse specialist, family nurse practitioner,

[00:01:01] and chief nursing officer at Nurse.org.

[00:01:03] Now on today's episode, I wanted to revisit a case that we all have heard of and are familiar

[00:01:10] with and that is the case of Radanda Vaughn.

[00:01:13] So for those of you who may not remember, Radanda was sentenced to three years of probation

[00:01:20] after being convicted in 2022 for gross negligence in a medication error that killed

[00:01:25] Charlene Murphy in 2017 by giving her the wrong medication.

[00:01:31] Charlene was supposed to receive a sedative called fentanyl, which is supposed to calm

[00:01:36] her and relax her for a particular test that she was preparing to have.

[00:01:40] But instead, Radanda bypassed several medication safety systems and administered a medication

[00:01:49] called Verset, which is a very powerful paralytic, which caused Charlene to stop breathing

[00:01:58] and unfortunately she died as a result of it.

[00:02:01] So this was all in the news.

[00:02:03] Everyone was on the uproar because one, we want to acknowledge Charlene Murphy's death.

[00:02:08] You know, it was by medication error, which is very sad.

[00:02:11] We never like to see it.

[00:02:12] And it's very much indeed a sentinel event.

[00:02:15] One worthy of, you know, exploration investigation, looking at the structure,

[00:02:21] process and assistant in place to make sure that something like this doesn't happen again.

[00:02:24] But also again, this is a death.

[00:02:28] Even if we in health care do our root cause analysis and everything that we need to do,

[00:02:32] it does not bring Charlene back.

[00:02:34] And very devastating for the family.

[00:02:38] We never want to see patient death, especially from an error that is made by one of us or

[00:02:44] our colleagues.

[00:02:45] Now here's the thing.

[00:02:48] This happened in 2017.

[00:02:50] Apparently, well, obviously the hospital was aware of it.

[00:02:55] The Board of Registered Nursing in Tennessee was made aware of it.

[00:02:59] And they initially said that they weren't going to take any action.

[00:03:03] I can't recall what happened.

[00:03:05] How this came to the court of public opinion, but the case resurface.

[00:03:14] Radonda was basically fired from her job.

[00:03:17] Her nursing license was revoked.

[00:03:20] And then she was charged in the court of law.

[00:03:24] So all of this can be very, very devastating.

[00:03:27] And I saw a lot of nurses coming to support and champion.

[00:03:34] Radonda's case, you know, really support her in her process.

[00:03:38] Now listen, I can imagine that is very traumatized to go through something like that.

[00:03:42] And of course, you'd like your colleagues to, to support you a rally at your side.

[00:03:50] However, I wasn't one of those nurses.

[00:03:55] I wasn't saying throw the book at her, but I, for a variety of reasons, was very

[00:04:00] concerned about what happened in the patient care setting, which you're

[00:04:06] saying care of Radonda, because there were a lot of failures in the system.

[00:04:09] So she was not set up for success, but there was still an opportunity for

[00:04:13] Donda to do the right thing.

[00:04:14] And she bypassed those safety systems and unfortunately found herself in

[00:04:18] that situation, which resulted in the patient death.

[00:04:20] The hospital knew of this, didn't report it to the proper authorities, didn't do a

[00:04:26] lot of things.

[00:04:26] I'm not going to harp on the hospital because all that said and done, but she's

[00:04:29] already been through the judicial system and things have our decisions made.

[00:04:35] Convections happen, probation assigned and all those types of things.

[00:04:38] And also the board of registered nursing initially said no investigation.

[00:04:42] Then they later did an investigation and they revoked her license.

[00:04:45] So the reason why I'm bringing all of this up now is because a few weeks

[00:04:50] ago, Radonda was back in court with her attorney asking the Tennessee asking for

[00:04:55] a hearing with the Tennessee border of registered nursing because she wanted

[00:04:59] to have her nursing license reinstated.

[00:05:04] Now here's my thing.

[00:05:05] This just happened last year.

[00:05:07] You haven't even done your three years of probation.

[00:05:10] Not sure what remediation education has been done on your part to show

[00:05:13] that you would be, uh, you know, that this wouldn't happen again.

[00:05:18] But it's barely been a year and she's already asking for her nursing license

[00:05:23] back and I'll say this, she feels like she should have never lost it.

[00:05:28] Okay.

[00:05:29] In the court of public opinion, um, not just nursing opinion in the court

[00:05:35] of public opinion, I mean society's opinion, it was a rightful thing to

[00:05:41] do and it's somewhere actually even a surprise that she didn't get a,

[00:05:45] a more severe sentence.

[00:05:49] Here's why.

[00:05:50] And let me also back up and say the board of registered nursing, I don't

[00:05:55] know how many of y'all nurses know this or understand this, but they are not,

[00:05:58] they were not created or designed for us.

[00:06:01] They were actually creating design to protect the public from us, which is

[00:06:05] why they are a body, um, an agency that is designed to make sure that

[00:06:11] nurses meet all of these criteria.

[00:06:14] They govern our practice, that's what we can do, can't do and these, and this

[00:06:17] and this to make sure that we're safe practitioners for the public.

[00:06:21] So they're really here for the public to represent the public's

[00:06:24] safety and best health interests.

[00:06:27] Okay.

[00:06:28] So I say that to say, because I think some nurses think that the

[00:06:32] board of registered nursing is just for us because we pay fees and dues

[00:06:35] to them to maintain our license, but they're really here to represent

[00:06:40] and protect the public.

[00:06:41] So let that just be, let that, let that simmer right there.

[00:06:44] Let that simmer in the back of your brain as we're kind of going through

[00:06:47] this conversation because I don't want you to say, oh, Alice is anti

[00:06:50] Redonda, I'm not, I'm all about public safety.

[00:06:56] Um, and ensuring that we have the correct structure, process

[00:07:01] and systems in place to ensure that now do I think Redonda wanted,

[00:07:07] you know, intended to go into work and make this mistake and harm

[00:07:09] people and I was, no, I don't think she did.

[00:07:11] However, there are consequences for our actions.

[00:07:14] We are adults and this is unfortunately, this is, this is what

[00:07:17] has to be the structure in the system in place to protect the public.

[00:07:22] Um, so I have a list of things here that I wanted to kind of go over.

[00:07:27] Um, because I think when we, when we look at Redonda's case,

[00:07:32] yes, I am part of the nursing profession.

[00:07:35] Yes, I know that the workplace and the systems and processes at

[00:07:41] work can be, can fail us.

[00:07:43] Um, they can not set us up for success, but as a provider, as the,

[00:07:49] as Alice, I am the boss of Alice.

[00:07:51] I govern Alice regardless what the hospital things, regardless

[00:07:56] what the board of registers nursing things, regardless of my

[00:07:58] patients things, regardless of my colleagues things.

[00:08:00] I Alice Benjamin responsible for my own practice and what

[00:08:03] I do and do not do.

[00:08:05] And just because we can do something doesn't mean that we should.

[00:08:07] This is why critical thinking is such an important characteristic

[00:08:11] of a safe nurse.

[00:08:13] So when it comes to whether Redonda should get her nursing

[00:08:18] license reinstated or not, that's what she's asking for after just

[00:08:23] one year of being on probation.

[00:08:26] Um, she said she's asking for it on the sake of principle

[00:08:29] cause she feels like her case was in its handle that the

[00:08:31] board of registered nursing didn't do their due diligence,

[00:08:34] didn't provide, you know, due process and things like that.

[00:08:36] I got to remind you the board of registered nursing is here

[00:08:39] for patient safety, not for nurses.

[00:08:41] They are not a judicial system.

[00:08:44] They are not the law.

[00:08:46] They are a body, an agency created for patient safety.

[00:08:50] Um, they are actually comprised of both appointed and elected

[00:08:55] personnel's, um, you have registered nurses on there.

[00:08:59] You can have LPNs on there.

[00:09:00] You can have advanced practice nurses on there.

[00:09:02] Uh, you have also, uh, people who represent the community on

[00:09:06] there, you can have public members, um, who are not licensed

[00:09:10] healthcare professionals and that's good because they're

[00:09:11] not, they're not jaded or swayed by our practice and our policy.

[00:09:16] Like they're completely innocent and looking at this from a

[00:09:18] total different lens, which is good.

[00:09:19] We want the diversity and thought there as we have people

[00:09:22] on this board, um, looking to establish criteria rules and

[00:09:28] processes to maintain patient safety, but they represent the

[00:09:32] general public and provide an outside perspective on the

[00:09:35] nursing issues.

[00:09:37] You can also have ex officio members on that board and those

[00:09:41] are representatives sometimes of the state health department or

[00:09:44] other relevant government agencies.

[00:09:46] And there's usually an executive director who, um, uh, is

[00:09:50] responsible for overseeing day-to-day operations and

[00:09:53] implementing board policies and ensuring that the board's

[00:09:56] regulatory functions are carried out effectively.

[00:09:59] So board registered nursing, that's the composition.

[00:10:03] They have the public's best interests in mind.

[00:10:05] So when we talk about due process, they're not a judicial system.

[00:10:11] They're not the court of law.

[00:10:14] And so because of that, their systems and processes and

[00:10:18] practices in which how they govern giving someone their

[00:10:20] license and taking away their license, that is a separate

[00:10:23] process from the judicial system.

[00:10:25] So Redonda feels like she was kind of hit from both, both sectors.

[00:10:30] Um, and understandably so.

[00:10:32] I could see that she worked very hard to get through

[00:10:33] nursing school as we all do.

[00:10:34] And then to see it kind of taken away abruptly like that, um,

[00:10:38] I'm sure it can be devastating, but I also have to remind you,

[00:10:42] um, and this is where some of the conflicts happened among us

[00:10:47] as healthcare professionals is that her actions resulted in a

[00:10:52] patient death.

[00:10:54] When is patient death?

[00:10:55] Okay.

[00:10:56] It's not okay.

[00:10:57] It's never okay.

[00:10:58] And so to not expect any repercussions for being responsible

[00:11:06] for someone's death, when you did something erroneously, when

[00:11:09] you overrode safety systems that were in place, when you

[00:11:13] didn't ask for help, not saying you did it on purpose, but

[00:11:16] you definitely weren't worried about doing it on accident.

[00:11:20] I'll say that much.

[00:11:21] And so in this conversation, I wanted to talk about some

[00:11:25] reasons why, uh, the board of registered nursing would be

[00:11:31] justified in not reinstating, uh, Redonda's nursing license.

[00:11:36] And the first one is patient safety.

[00:11:38] That is the primary concern in healthcare, patient safety,

[00:11:41] and her error had severe consequences, uh, resulting in patient

[00:11:45] death.

[00:11:46] And so reinstating her license actually may raise concerns

[00:11:50] about her ability to provide safe and competent care to

[00:11:53] patients, because if this happened in this situation, who's

[00:11:59] to say what her practice has been?

[00:12:01] Who's to say that this is not the way that she conducted

[00:12:04] herself that day was not the way she's always conducted

[00:12:07] herself.

[00:12:08] We don't know that.

[00:12:09] Um, and to this date, not that it needs to be put in the

[00:12:13] forefront now, but you know, what type of education

[00:12:15] or reading me remediation was provided to her.

[00:12:18] It's not the BRN's responsibility to, um, rehabilitate a nurse.

[00:12:24] Once they've taken your license away, if you want that, be

[00:12:28] about it, show it, you know, work for it.

[00:12:31] Don't be told or don't wait on what's for someone to tell

[00:12:34] you what to do, uh, to get what it is that you want.

[00:12:38] It worked for it.

[00:12:39] So demonstrate to the public, to the board that you can

[00:12:43] be a safe practitioner.

[00:12:44] Okay.

[00:12:45] So there needs to be some education, some, you know, some

[00:12:51] rehabilitation.

[00:12:53] Um, and here's the thing.

[00:12:54] It's not just redonda though, because it's a whole system, her

[00:12:57] whole healthcare system, uh, like computers being down, uh, her

[00:13:01] being, uh, I believe it's a progressive care nurse taking

[00:13:04] care of ICU patients also taking on the role of being

[00:13:07] afloat, uh, while also precepting and being a

[00:13:11] newer nurse without, you know, years of that expertise

[00:13:15] experience under both.

[00:13:16] There was a lot of things in place.

[00:13:17] So even if redonda showed education and rehabilitation,

[00:13:22] that she knows what to do in these given situations, um, we're

[00:13:25] really not going to notice she gets into it and then who's

[00:13:28] to say that the hospital is not going to set her up for

[00:13:30] failure again.

[00:13:31] So that's one patient safety.

[00:13:33] Two, breach of standard procedures.

[00:13:36] So this particular incident, um, involved a breach of

[00:13:40] standardized nursing procedures and medication

[00:13:43] administration protocols.

[00:13:44] Guys in nursing school, they like drill us.

[00:13:49] They like, you know, what are the five rights?

[00:13:52] And actually there's 10 rights or eight rights.

[00:13:53] I don't know.

[00:13:53] There's a whole bunch of rights.

[00:13:54] But the biggest concern is that we're making sure that

[00:13:58] people are doing all their checks to make sure that the

[00:14:01] medication that they were administering is safe for the

[00:14:04] patient.

[00:14:05] Again, I'm not going to rehash everything that happened

[00:14:07] or done this case, but definitely wasn't out of ideal

[00:14:09] situation.

[00:14:10] And here's the thing.

[00:14:11] Did she really know what she was giving?

[00:14:13] Because first of all, Versed is a para full sedation

[00:14:17] medication.

[00:14:18] So even if you give someone Versed, you still should be

[00:14:21] monitoring their respiratory blood pressure, heart rate

[00:14:23] type, those types of things.

[00:14:24] Sounds like she kind of walked away from the patient after

[00:14:26] giving the medication.

[00:14:27] And then when she pulled the medication, she couldn't

[00:14:30] initially find the reverse that so she overwrote

[00:14:32] something, got out the vecaronium.

[00:14:37] It says on there that it's a paralytic.

[00:14:41] And here's the thing.

[00:14:42] If the bottle didn't say the name of the medication

[00:14:45] you're familiar with, did you not think to ask

[00:14:47] question?

[00:14:48] Do you really understand what a paralytic is?

[00:14:51] And giving that.

[00:14:53] Here's the thing.

[00:14:54] If she were a true critical character, she would

[00:14:56] have known what it was.

[00:14:57] So that's why I beg the question.

[00:14:59] It just bothers me that someone perhaps who wasn't

[00:15:02] experiencing that special was taking care of patients.

[00:15:05] You know, anyways, she gave this medication with all

[00:15:09] these alerts that like, think, think, think,

[00:15:10] reflect, reflect, reflect, reflect, reflect,

[00:15:12] and she just like, give the medication.

[00:15:15] And so she reached a standardized procedures

[00:15:17] protocol.

[00:15:17] So if returning into nursing, would she bypass

[00:15:22] the systems again?

[00:15:23] So that is a big concern.

[00:15:25] And then reinstating her license might send

[00:15:26] a message that those type of lapses and those

[00:15:29] type of accidents without significant consequences

[00:15:32] are like, oh, it's okay.

[00:15:34] It's not that bad.

[00:15:35] It is.

[00:15:36] It's very bad.

[00:15:37] It's very bad.

[00:15:39] So that's another reason.

[00:15:40] Legal accountability.

[00:15:42] Now she was initially charged with reckless

[00:15:44] homicide, a criminal offense for her role in the

[00:15:49] patient's death.

[00:15:51] Reinstating redonded license could be seen as

[00:15:54] diminishing the legal consequences of her action.

[00:15:57] So just one year, she hasn't finished her three year

[00:16:00] probation to get that license back that quickly.

[00:16:06] After such a serious offense.

[00:16:09] Okay, not that bad.

[00:16:11] At least that's the that's the impression that it

[00:16:13] gives we have courts laws and rules in place

[00:16:19] to protect people.

[00:16:21] When we are too forgiving or easily forgiving with

[00:16:25] reinstating of licensure like that, it gives the

[00:16:28] impression that the initial action wasn't as bad

[00:16:30] as what it really was.

[00:16:32] And so it kind of sets the president's and kind

[00:16:33] of for other people, you know, that this will

[00:16:37] unfortunately happen to them as well.

[00:16:38] So if someone else has a medication error and

[00:16:41] they kill someone, they're like, well,

[00:16:42] Rizonda after one year, she got her license

[00:16:44] back.

[00:16:45] So I don't even know why I should.

[00:16:47] Listen, let's not do that.

[00:16:49] Okay.

[00:16:49] There's definitely some legal accountability that

[00:16:51] that needs to happen.

[00:16:54] Also public trust.

[00:16:57] Again, we are in the court of public opinion.

[00:17:00] Okay.

[00:17:01] BRN is there for patient safety.

[00:17:04] Healthcare professionals are entrusted with the

[00:17:07] lives and wellbeing of patients.

[00:17:08] So reinstating, uh, Radonda's license could

[00:17:11] erode public trust even further in the nursing

[00:17:14] profession as it would be perceived as leniency

[00:17:18] in response to a serious medical error.

[00:17:21] And also let me throw in there, if I don't, it's

[00:17:24] like ignoring the elephant in the room as a woman

[00:17:26] of color.

[00:17:27] I understand the disparities in fairness

[00:17:34] in the judicial system based on the color of

[00:17:37] one's skin and how they appear.

[00:17:40] Would it be the same if Radonda was of a

[00:17:44] different complexion or of a different

[00:17:45] nationality?

[00:17:46] We don't know.

[00:17:47] But because racial tensions are high and

[00:17:51] because we've seen a lot on social media about

[00:17:54] race, unfairness, inequality in so many other

[00:17:58] sectors, let's not ignore the fact that that

[00:18:00] can also possibly exist in healthcare.

[00:18:02] And it does.

[00:18:04] It does.

[00:18:05] We know that patients are not treated the

[00:18:08] same or offered the same services because of

[00:18:09] the color of their skin.

[00:18:10] So let's also make sure that healthcare

[00:18:12] providers are treated fairly.

[00:18:16] As well.

[00:18:16] So if someone else had conducted, which there

[00:18:21] are people who have lost their nursing license

[00:18:23] for far less severe things than Radonda's case,

[00:18:30] but yet for Radonda's license to be

[00:18:31] reinstated would be unfair.

[00:18:33] Now in this podcast, I'm not running down

[00:18:35] that list, but if you do the research,

[00:18:36] you'll find it.

[00:18:37] It's very available.

[00:18:38] It's available on the internet, but let's

[00:18:40] Google that.

[00:18:41] Okay.

[00:18:41] So let's make sure.

[00:18:42] Yes, Radonda lost her nursing license

[00:18:44] because of this medical error that resulted in death.

[00:18:46] There are other nurses who lost her

[00:18:48] nursing license for far less and have

[00:18:52] not been able to get it back.

[00:18:53] Let's make sure that we're being equitable

[00:18:55] when it comes to the evaluation on whether

[00:18:58] someone should be reinstated for their

[00:19:01] nursing license.

[00:19:02] And I bring that up because racial

[00:19:04] tensions is something that's very, very

[00:19:07] noticeable.

[00:19:08] It's very prevalent.

[00:19:10] It's out there.

[00:19:11] And we need to make sure that in this court

[00:19:14] of public opinion, as we are nurses taking

[00:19:16] care of patients and we are entrusted with

[00:19:18] the public safety, that we also are making

[00:19:21] sure that we don't act as if we are above

[00:19:23] the law.

[00:19:24] Okay.

[00:19:25] Another reason why the board of

[00:19:29] registered nursing wouldn't be wrong

[00:19:30] if they did not reinstate Radonda's

[00:19:33] nursing license because of deterrence.

[00:19:35] Right.

[00:19:36] So maintaining strict consequences for

[00:19:39] medical error serves as a deterrent

[00:19:40] or health care professionals and it

[00:19:43] helps them and hospitals to make sure

[00:19:45] that they set up systems of process in

[00:19:47] place, that they exercise caution and

[00:19:49] that they adhere to safety protocols.

[00:19:51] So reinstating Radonda's license might

[00:19:54] weaken this deterrent effect.

[00:19:56] Also precedent reinstating her

[00:19:59] nursing license could set a president

[00:20:01] for handling similar cases in the

[00:20:03] future.

[00:20:04] So again, if someone did something

[00:20:06] similar in the past and they're

[00:20:08] like well, Radonda got her

[00:20:10] nursing license reinstated after one

[00:20:11] year, I know I killed someone but I

[00:20:14] should be that should happen to me.

[00:20:15] So at what point then does a

[00:20:19] consequence even meaning things?

[00:20:21] It's going to be like a meaningless

[00:20:23] consequence and it's going to set the

[00:20:24] precedence and the practice of oh I

[00:20:26] could do yeah it's not really matter

[00:20:28] if you kill someone because you know

[00:20:29] you'll get your life back.

[00:20:30] No big deal Alice.

[00:20:31] Like no we're not we should not do

[00:20:33] that this is a precedence and so

[00:20:36] this is setting the precedence for

[00:20:37] how similar cases will be handled in

[00:20:39] the future and it'll potentially

[00:20:41] make it more challenging to discipline

[00:20:43] nurses and other health care

[00:20:44] professionals and hold them accountable

[00:20:46] for errors that result in patient

[00:20:47] harm.

[00:20:48] I don't think you hear me.

[00:20:49] I think that's that's extremely

[00:20:51] important.

[00:20:52] So you know, I'm not saying

[00:20:54] Radonda is a bad person.

[00:20:56] I'm not saying that she meant to

[00:20:58] do harm not at all.

[00:20:59] But what I'm saying is what happened

[00:21:02] happened.

[00:21:04] You can't remove the things we

[00:21:06] can't take back the things that

[00:21:07] happened.

[00:21:08] There were points where decisions

[00:21:11] were made and she acted in a certain

[00:21:13] way that was negligent.

[00:21:15] The court found her guilty of that.

[00:21:17] She received a consequence now

[00:21:20] because of that consequence you

[00:21:22] can't turn around and cry and say

[00:21:24] well I was treated unfairly.

[00:21:26] The board of registered nursing

[00:21:27] there they didn't do their due

[00:21:28] diligence they didn't do that.

[00:21:30] They're there to protect the

[00:21:31] safety of the public.

[00:21:32] And I also say this though

[00:21:33] because I'm not going to let leave

[00:21:35] the the B.R.N. unscathed here

[00:21:37] too because they knew about this

[00:21:39] the first time.

[00:21:39] I don't know what their process

[00:21:41] was.

[00:21:41] I guess they didn't feel like

[00:21:42] working, but they should have

[00:21:43] got off their asses the first

[00:21:44] time and did their due diligence

[00:21:46] and really investigate.

[00:21:48] Now let me say this also.

[00:21:50] Have they really done their job

[00:21:52] the first time?

[00:21:52] Radonda might have had her

[00:21:53] nursing license revoked the

[00:21:54] first time.

[00:21:55] And then we wouldn't be in a

[00:21:57] situation where she feels like

[00:21:58] she's treated unfairly because

[00:21:59] first they said they weren't going

[00:22:00] to do anything now they did

[00:22:01] something.

[00:22:02] If they'd done their job the

[00:22:02] first time they probably would

[00:22:03] have revoked her license the

[00:22:04] first time.

[00:22:06] So the Board of Registered

[00:22:07] Nursing also needs to be

[00:22:08] handled in that situation.

[00:22:09] And I know they are overworked

[00:22:10] and overwhelmed with the

[00:22:12] number of nursing applicants

[00:22:13] and the things that are

[00:22:14] happening and things like

[00:22:15] that.

[00:22:15] But we also need to make sure

[00:22:17] that our Board of Registered

[00:22:18] Nursing if they are indeed

[00:22:19] there to protect the safety

[00:22:20] of the public that they have

[00:22:21] the resources that they need

[00:22:22] to do their due diligence

[00:22:23] and do their job right the

[00:22:24] first time.

[00:22:26] OK, because I'm going to go

[00:22:27] ahead and say it.

[00:22:28] Tennessee Board of Registered

[00:22:29] Nursing you were straight lazy

[00:22:30] didn't do your job the first

[00:22:31] time.

[00:22:31] You should have did a thorough

[00:22:32] investigation and got all the

[00:22:34] facts.

[00:22:34] You should have pulled in the

[00:22:35] hospital.

[00:22:36] You should have pulled in

[00:22:36] Redonda.

[00:22:36] You should have pulled in

[00:22:37] everything you need to pull

[00:22:38] to do a thorough and proper

[00:22:39] investigation because now

[00:22:41] Redonda has wiggle room to say

[00:22:43] oh well that's unfair.

[00:22:44] It is unfair because you tell

[00:22:46] me one thing then you do

[00:22:46] something else.

[00:22:48] But here's the thing.

[00:22:49] You did that because you

[00:22:49] didn't do your job the first

[00:22:51] time.

[00:22:51] So Board of Registered

[00:22:52] Nursing I'm coming for you

[00:22:54] too.

[00:22:54] You should have did your job

[00:22:55] right the first time.

[00:22:56] Now another reason why

[00:23:00] the Board of Registered

[00:23:00] Nursing wouldn't necessarily be

[00:23:02] wrong for not

[00:23:03] reinstating Redonda's licenses

[00:23:06] for rehabilitation and

[00:23:07] reeducation.

[00:23:09] Some may argue that

[00:23:10] rehabilitation and

[00:23:11] reeducation are essential.

[00:23:13] Yes.

[00:23:14] Reinstating her nursing

[00:23:16] license may not be the most

[00:23:18] appropriate path in this case

[00:23:21] because while she still has

[00:23:22] all this nursing knowledge

[00:23:23] it's probably not in the

[00:23:25] public's best interest that

[00:23:26] someone who's committed the

[00:23:27] action that Redonda

[00:23:29] committed be able to

[00:23:31] practice nursing.

[00:23:33] That's just facts guys.

[00:23:34] It just is.

[00:23:35] And I know you don't like it

[00:23:36] because it's happened to one of

[00:23:37] your own like your family

[00:23:39] to a nursing family.

[00:23:39] I get it.

[00:23:40] But we could not act like

[00:23:42] we are above the law.

[00:23:43] We have to have these

[00:23:44] system structures and processes

[00:23:45] in place to protect the public.

[00:23:48] It's not just about us and what

[00:23:49] we want as nurses.

[00:23:50] It's just not.

[00:23:51] OK.

[00:23:52] So just get off of that.

[00:23:54] Just get off of that.

[00:23:55] And I say this from a place

[00:23:57] of love, from a place of

[00:23:59] experience, from a place of

[00:24:01] an experience in all aspects

[00:24:03] bedside leadership,

[00:24:05] nursing politics legislation.

[00:24:08] We have to do what's right for

[00:24:10] the public.

[00:24:11] And so Redonda has expressed

[00:24:14] that she would like to help

[00:24:15] change the

[00:24:18] the work environment and the

[00:24:19] culture to make sure that these

[00:24:20] system these broken systems and

[00:24:22] processes are remedied.

[00:24:24] So other nurses don't find

[00:24:25] themselves in that situation

[00:24:26] and she can.

[00:24:28] But she don't need her license

[00:24:29] as a registered nurse to do that.

[00:24:32] She doesn't.

[00:24:33] A license for a registered

[00:24:34] nursing is a license that allows

[00:24:36] you to do all of the things

[00:24:38] that are in due.

[00:24:39] And if she's done what she's

[00:24:41] done and she's been punished

[00:24:41] and it's been revoked, she's

[00:24:42] probably not the best person

[00:24:43] to do that anymore.

[00:24:45] I'm not saying that people don't

[00:24:47] change, people don't learn.

[00:24:48] And obviously I'm not saying

[00:24:49] that at all people do.

[00:24:50] But in this situation,

[00:24:52] especially it's only been one

[00:24:52] year guys, she only been on

[00:24:54] probation for one year.

[00:24:55] OK.

[00:24:57] And I say that a lot can't

[00:24:58] happen in a year.

[00:24:58] But you don't think that's a

[00:25:00] little bit entitled to be

[00:25:02] coming back so soon, so fast and

[00:25:04] be like, I deserve my nurse and

[00:25:06] license. And the board of

[00:25:07] registered nursing was wrong.

[00:25:09] I think that we need to remind

[00:25:12] each other that when errors

[00:25:13] happen, yes, there is a system

[00:25:15] in a process.

[00:25:17] We may not be set up for

[00:25:18] success. We might have been

[00:25:19] kind of put in a bad situation,

[00:25:21] but ultimately at the end of

[00:25:22] the day it's our action.

[00:25:23] So I think Rodana needs to

[00:25:24] take some more.

[00:25:25] I think she needs to humble

[00:25:26] herself a little bit more in

[00:25:28] the court of public opinion

[00:25:29] because it's giving a titled

[00:25:30] white woman.

[00:25:31] And I hate to say that, but it

[00:25:32] is.

[00:25:34] And I'm just saying what you're

[00:25:35] thinking. Many people are

[00:25:36] thinking but are afraid to say.

[00:25:37] But in this podcast,

[00:25:39] I think it's important that we

[00:25:40] have these candid conversations

[00:25:41] because I would not be

[00:25:44] serving my

[00:25:46] listenership and viewership

[00:25:48] without addressing those

[00:25:49] important aspects.

[00:25:50] And so she can still work on

[00:25:52] advocacy, patient advocacy and

[00:25:53] health care quality and

[00:25:54] improvement and all those things.

[00:25:55] But she doesn't need to be a

[00:25:56] waxed registered nurse to do

[00:25:57] something.

[00:25:58] So, you know, it's important to

[00:26:00] note that the decisions

[00:26:02] whether to reinstate her

[00:26:04] nursing license or not are

[00:26:06] typically made by the

[00:26:08] board of registered nursing

[00:26:09] authorities.

[00:26:11] Now I don't know what's going

[00:26:12] on in Tennessee or how their

[00:26:14] board of registered nursing is

[00:26:17] going to respond to this.

[00:26:18] But sadly

[00:26:21] the court of public opinion

[00:26:22] will weigh heavy on this.

[00:26:23] And I can imagine that

[00:26:25] there will be several

[00:26:27] patient advocacy groups that come

[00:26:29] out and speak out against

[00:26:31] the reinstatement of her

[00:26:32] don does nursing license

[00:26:34] and it sucks.

[00:26:36] Sorry, you know, I'm not

[00:26:38] here to champion

[00:26:40] the reinstatement or not either

[00:26:42] way. I just know what I

[00:26:44] I know what my opinions are

[00:26:45] and my opinions are.

[00:26:46] I think that she was she's

[00:26:48] received a light

[00:26:50] punishment for what happened.

[00:26:51] I actually could have seen the

[00:26:52] books thrown at her even

[00:26:53] harder. But

[00:26:55] hey, I'm not I wasn't the judge.

[00:26:57] I'm not assigning the

[00:26:59] punishments or things like that.

[00:27:00] But I definitely do believe

[00:27:01] that revoking her nursing

[00:27:03] license was the proper and safe

[00:27:04] thing to do.

[00:27:05] And I don't know who

[00:27:07] Redonda's friends are.

[00:27:08] I don't know where her council

[00:27:09] is. But I think

[00:27:11] that there's a lot of work

[00:27:13] and advocacy and things that she

[00:27:15] can do.

[00:27:16] And there is probably

[00:27:18] a better strategy

[00:27:20] for going about

[00:27:23] getting her nursing license

[00:27:25] reinstated than what she's doing.

[00:27:27] Because again, it's giving an

[00:27:27] entitled white woman.

[00:27:29] It is.

[00:27:30] And I just had

[00:27:31] I had had had I

[00:27:33] know Redonda, she called me

[00:27:35] and asked me like, well,

[00:27:35] so what would you do?

[00:27:36] I would have gave her a whole

[00:27:37] different play.

[00:27:39] I would have given a whole

[00:27:39] different play. I would have

[00:27:40] given her some different

[00:27:41] advice and that I would have

[00:27:42] told I would have shared my

[00:27:43] opinions on how I think she

[00:27:45] can take this tragic event

[00:27:46] and turn it into something

[00:27:48] more beautiful than

[00:27:50] she could ever imagine and

[00:27:52] turn it into something that she

[00:27:53] can actually, you know, also

[00:27:55] even get paid for and

[00:27:57] make the patient improvements

[00:27:59] that she would like to do. But

[00:28:00] she didn't call me. I don't know

[00:28:00] her. And I'm just sharing this

[00:28:02] is the Ask Nurse Alice podcast.

[00:28:03] So Nurse Alice is going to say

[00:28:04] what Nurse Alice thinks.

[00:28:05] But that's where we are.

[00:28:07] So I wanted to talk about that

[00:28:09] because again, just in the

[00:28:09] recent week, she's a

[00:28:11] re asked a judge

[00:28:13] to get a hearing so

[00:28:15] she can get our nursing license

[00:28:16] back. And if

[00:28:18] I were the judge, if I were

[00:28:19] the board of registered nursing

[00:28:20] tendency, I would not I

[00:28:22] would not be reinstating

[00:28:23] anything, especially not now

[00:28:25] and especially not with the

[00:28:27] what we see from the public

[00:28:29] because I'm not in the case.

[00:28:30] I don't know those people.

[00:28:31] I don't know her people or

[00:28:32] any, you know, she didn't call

[00:28:33] me or anything like that. But

[00:28:35] I believe that from the court

[00:28:36] of public opinion and from

[00:28:38] from a patient advocacy stance,

[00:28:41] I think she's going about it all

[00:28:42] wrong. Could she change

[00:28:44] and one day be

[00:28:46] a safe, safe nurse

[00:28:48] that can get into a practice

[00:28:49] possibly.

[00:28:50] But it's not going to happen one

[00:28:51] year after your after

[00:28:52] your after being

[00:28:56] going through court.

[00:28:57] That's just too soon.

[00:28:58] That's just like, honestly, that

[00:29:00] gives me the I'm an F attitude.

[00:29:03] That's that's really what it does.

[00:29:05] Like I'm entitled. This was wrong.

[00:29:07] Hurry up, fix it type of thing.

[00:29:08] And I just feel like you can't do

[00:29:09] that with patients lives.

[00:29:10] You can't do that with patient

[00:29:12] safety. You there is definitely

[00:29:14] a way to do things in a way

[00:29:16] not to do things.

[00:29:17] And it's coming off just ingenuous.

[00:29:20] And I think those are things that

[00:29:23] the non tangible things that impact

[00:29:25] a court's opinion or an agency's

[00:29:28] decision.

[00:29:29] So anyways, I wanted to come on here

[00:29:31] and talk about that real quick.

[00:29:32] I love to know what you think, guys,

[00:29:34] because I know she wasn't set up for

[00:29:36] success. I know it was a whole

[00:29:38] shit show over there with how things

[00:29:39] were set up short staff.

[00:29:41] Things not working.

[00:29:42] I get it.

[00:29:43] But at the end of the day, and I'm

[00:29:44] going to tell you this to anybody

[00:29:45] who's listening, if you find yourself

[00:29:46] in a situation like that, stop.

[00:29:49] Stop. Pump the brakes.

[00:29:50] Move slow.

[00:29:51] The problem is nurses try to

[00:29:53] like, oh my gosh, I gotta do this.

[00:29:54] I gotta do this and you try to rush

[00:29:56] and get work done.

[00:29:56] But then when you rush, you make the

[00:29:58] mistake. Now here's the thing.

[00:29:59] You rush, you get stuff done.

[00:30:01] Hospital benefits. You rush to make

[00:30:02] mistakes. You don't benefit.

[00:30:04] And so at the end of the day,

[00:30:05] I'm OK with bottle necking

[00:30:06] assistance to make sure that I'm

[00:30:07] safe. I'm so quick to say,

[00:30:08] hold on.

[00:30:10] Let's take a break here because I

[00:30:11] don't feel safe doing this.

[00:30:12] I think this might happen and I

[00:30:14] need some help. I need, you know,

[00:30:15] I need someone to see this problem

[00:30:17] and understand that I'm not

[00:30:19] operating as a lone wolf here

[00:30:21] if something goes wrong.

[00:30:22] OK. And I think that's just the

[00:30:24] conversation we need to have.

[00:30:25] So I really want to empower nurses

[00:30:26] to use their voice on a proactive

[00:30:29] side before the problem happens,

[00:30:31] versus on the reactive side where

[00:30:33] all the nurses are championing

[00:30:34] Redonda and her help and her

[00:30:36] efforts and stuff after the death,

[00:30:38] after the conviction.

[00:30:40] Like let's get on the

[00:30:41] preventative side of that.

[00:30:43] I love being a nurse, but I

[00:30:43] feel like sometimes my colleagues,

[00:30:45] we only complain about things once,

[00:30:47] you know, and complain and move

[00:30:49] mountains after something's happened.

[00:30:51] And I really want us to step up into

[00:30:52] the leadership role, which I know

[00:30:53] nurses can be and help move

[00:30:55] mountains and make decisions and

[00:30:57] create settings and environments

[00:30:58] that are best for us.

[00:31:01] I really do.

[00:31:02] Anyways, I don't know how y'all

[00:31:03] are going to feel about this

[00:31:03] episode, but I got some stuff

[00:31:05] off my chest and I feel good

[00:31:07] that I'm able to be my true

[00:31:08] and authentic self.

[00:31:09] And I would love to hear what

[00:31:10] your thoughts are.

[00:31:11] OK, it's not a me against you.

[00:31:12] It's not a Alice versus

[00:31:13] against Redonda versus and

[00:31:15] then a nobody versus nobody.

[00:31:16] This is us as health care

[00:31:18] professionals talking about a

[00:31:20] very high profile,

[00:31:23] highly charged topic

[00:31:25] that is worthy of discussion

[00:31:26] so we can work it out amongst

[00:31:28] ourselves so we can unify as a

[00:31:29] profession and then move

[00:31:31] forward so that we are

[00:31:33] operating to our best

[00:31:36] throughout the highest of our

[00:31:37] scope and providing the best

[00:31:39] service so our patients get the

[00:31:41] best outcome.

[00:31:41] So that's that.

[00:31:42] I'd love to know what you think.

[00:31:43] Email me at nurse Alice at

[00:31:45] nurse or or you can leave a

[00:31:46] comment rating review on your

[00:31:48] favorite podcast platform, which

[00:31:49] by the way, I would love it if

[00:31:51] you leave a rating.

[00:31:51] It would help me get the

[00:31:52] podcast out there to more people

[00:31:54] and let me know how I'm doing.

[00:31:55] It's funny to change something,

[00:31:57] do something different.

[00:31:58] You know, I want to know what

[00:31:59] do you think?

[00:32:00] And if you have an idea for the

[00:32:01] podcast, love to hear that as

[00:32:02] well.

[00:32:03] And share this with your friend,

[00:32:04] your colleague, your classmate,

[00:32:06] you know, anyone who you think

[00:32:07] would benefit from this type of

[00:32:08] content.

[00:32:08] I really, really want to get

[00:32:10] this type of content out to the

[00:32:11] masses because

[00:32:12] I feel like so many people could

[00:32:13] benefit from it.

[00:32:15] So and shout out nurse dot org

[00:32:16] for hosting the podcast.

[00:32:18] Thanks to them.

[00:32:18] Make sure to check out their

[00:32:19] website at nurse dot org.

[00:32:20] Tons of great information there.

[00:32:22] I'm nurse Alice.

[00:32:22] You can follow me on all things

[00:32:24] social at ask nurse Alice.

[00:32:26] And guys, until next time,

[00:32:28] make good choices, be kind

[00:32:30] to one another and live with

[00:32:31] my friends.

[00:32:32] Thanks for listening to Ask

[00:32:34] Nurse Alice.

[00:32:35] Visit nurse dot org for

[00:32:36] nursing career, education

[00:32:38] and community resources.