Breaking the Silence: Growing Up with Sickle Cell, Facing Pain, and Finding Strength Through Advocacy with James Griffin

[00:00:03] I'm Effie Parks. Welcome to Once Upon A Gene, the podcast. This is a place I created for us to connect and share the stories of our not-so-typical lives. Raising kids who are born with rare genetic syndromes and other types of disabilities can feel pretty isolating. What I know for sure is that when we can hear the triumphs and challenges from others who get it, we can find a lot more laughter, a lot more hope, and feel a lot less alone.

[00:00:31] I believe there are some magical healing powers that can happen for all of us through sharing our stories, and I'll take all the help I can get. Once Upon A Gene is proud to be part of Bloodstream Media. Living in a family affected by rare and chronic illness can be isolating, and sometimes the best medicine is connecting to the voices of people who share your experience.

[00:00:56] This is why Bloodstream Media produces podcasts, blogs, and other forms of content for patients, families, and clinicians impacted by rare and chronic diseases. Visit BloodstreamMedia.com to learn more. Hello, hello, and welcome to the show. This is Once Upon A Gene, and I'm your host Effie Parks. I'm so thankful that you're here spending a little time with me today. I appreciate you showing up and subscribing to the show. If you haven't yet, please head over to Apple Podcasts and check out the link in the description.

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[00:01:40] I have a really great conversation today with someone super special. His story is filled with resilience and heart, and he's just a really cool dude. He's been living with sickle cells since he was two years old, and his journey has not been an easy one.

[00:01:56] Through pain and countless hospitalizations and the challenges of growing up with a condition that he kept hidden for years, he found strength in his experience and he turned them into a source of inspiration for others. Something some of these extra special advocates typically do. He's an advocate, he's an author, and he really embodies what it means to be showing up no matter what life throws your way.

[00:02:21] I'm really excited for you to hear from him. Please enjoy my conversation with James Griffin. Hello, James. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me, Effie. Yes, finally. I was telling James before the show that he's one of those people who I have canceled on and abandoned about 700 times, but guess what? We're here now, and I'm so happy. I got to meet you in person a few times, actually, over the years at some conferences, which is always so cool. Don't always get to meet the people I get to chat with on the pod.

[00:02:51] Yeah, it was definitely exciting to see you. I think when I first met you at one of the conferences and just advocating you run into so many different people, and it's always good to make those connections. So I'm excited to be here. Well, I know you're such an amazing advocate, and I just love that so much about you. You know, I haven't actually had a patient perspective on the show in a while, so I'm really excited to be talking to you about your journey.

[00:03:18] So can you introduce yourself and share a little bit about the rare disease that you have and perhaps how it has shaped you as a person? Yes. So my name is James Griffin. I was diagnosed with sickle cell at the age of two. A sickle cell is a blood disorder that affects your red blood cells. So people without sickle cell have normal red blood cells that are round, smooth, and they move through the veins easily.

[00:03:46] But a person like me with sickle cell, our blood cells change shape from round to sickle. So it almost looks like, you know, a banana or a crescent moon in the veins. And when that happens, it stops all other blood cells from flowing throughout the rest of the body. And that's what causes pain. Pain is the biggest symptom of sickle cell. So I've had to deal with pain my entire life in and out of the hospital because the pain can be unbearable. And it takes medication to treat that pain.

[00:04:13] And the pain can be in any location of the body. So I can have pain in my knees, my legs, my arms, back, chest, just wherever that cell just changes shape and is not able to allow other cells to pass through. That's what I feel. I feel it affects the pain. And so growing up, it just made me feel like I was different because nobody else I knew had sickle cells. So I feel like I was all alone.

[00:04:39] Many people in a rare disease space feel that way because they don't see anyone who looks like them or you don't find anyone when you're having a rare condition who has the same thing as you. So it's hard to relate to other people. And even your family don't know the full extent of what you're going through. But since I had a supportive family, they were always there to help me and, you know, give me that support. So I felt like I was being supported outside of the hospital.

[00:05:04] But, yeah, it was definitely a different childhood for me because that rare blood cell changes shape just due to a decrease of oxygen. It could be a temperature change. Being dehydrated can cause your rare blood cells to change. So it's a lot of different triggers that will make your blood cells change shape from around the sickle. And you never know. And as a kid, it's just unpredictable. You want to play like other kids. I always wanted to play football, but I couldn't play football because the physical exertion would cause that blood cell to change shape.

[00:05:33] And so it was harder for me to exercise for long periods of time and exert myself in that way. So I grew up feeling like I was different and always wanted to keep my medical condition hidden because I didn't want to be seen as different. So that's what I did. I hit my medical condition for a long time. And then finally, I decided to open up when I got into adulthood. Wow. Adulthood. Yes. Oh, my gosh.

[00:05:57] It hurts my heart thinking about little two-year-old baby James, like crying in pain and nobody understanding why. How do you even manage the pain of a child with sickle cell with pain meds? Like how do you even alleviate anything when you're so young and you can't take big kid drugs? Yes. Just force it. My mother was always on top of it for me as a kid, but she had to remind me and constantly push me to drink a lot of fluids because water helps lubricate the veins.

[00:06:25] So now your blood cells are able to flow easier throughout the veins, but she had to stay on me constantly to make sure I drunk water. I'm one of four children, and I'm the only one in my family with sickle cells. So they all had to, at times, come get me and bring me inside from playing for long periods of time when I didn't come in and make sure I drunk water and make sure I rested. Because as a kid, you want to just keep going and going and going and be like everyone else.

[00:06:51] And so to manage that pain, she would make sure I drunk a lot of water. But when I couldn't drink water and I was having that pain, she would come back side and give me the pain medication so that I could take the pain medication. But it's hard for a kid to take that pain medication. But I knew I had to take it because it helped me. And most of the time, as a kid, it resulted in me having to be admitted to the emergency rooms and hospitals. And that was the worst part about it because I knew when I got there what was coming next.

[00:07:20] And that was the needles and trying to get IVs in my veins, which was always a hard thing because I had this blood condition. So my veins aren't the best. And so that was definitely a problem going to the emergency room in the hospital is starting at IV so I can get the pain medication. Because having sickle cell, that pain medication may not work. That over-counter pain medication is not strong enough when you're going through these pain crises. So now you need something stronger.

[00:07:47] And so that's why I always would have to go to the emergency room and they would give me morphine as a child. And so I would have it going through my IV just to alleviate the pain. So as a kid, you're missing school. You're missing time with friends. And you're maybe spending birthdays or holidays in the hospital. You're feeling isolated and different. How did you cope with those times? Or how did you learn to cope with those times over time?

[00:08:17] Just understanding that, you know, this was something I had to deal with. It took me a while to cope with that time. I think as a child it was a lot easier for me to cope with it because, you know, it was, I was just gone for one week. And then I would be back home and back to my friends and playing football in the streets like we did. So over time as a kid, you know, it was just normal. It was a normal process because it started out so young. I was diagnosed at two years old.

[00:08:44] And so since that time I remember getting blood transfusions at the age of six to help my blood cells and blood count go up. It could get me through a crisis. But I just had to just stay focused and understand this was something I did. I had a lot of things to take my mind off of it. Video games. Had siblings. So I'm one of four kids. So they always was there for me and could support me.

[00:09:08] But it took a toll as an adult or teenager, I should say, because as a teenager you go to school and now you're trying to find yourself in your identity. And you don't want to be standing out. You want to fit in. And so that's when it became hard on me because I was having attention drawn to me because there were times I couldn't take gym and people would ask me questions. Why are you not swimming today? Or why do you have a water bottle? Why do you get to carry water bottles and we don't? Because this is a time that we weren't able to carry water bottles in school.

[00:09:37] You had to have a special privilege. And so I had that special privilege and now I'm getting all this attention that I didn't want to be seen for because of my illness. And also the biggest thing too was the jaundice. My blood cells are breaking down so fast that it, belly rubin is piling up, which is a yellow substance. And it appears to make my eyes appear yellow. And so I would get people to stare at me, point at me, ask questions all the time.

[00:10:03] And so that's what really hurt and that's what made me not want to speak out and had me give a hard time with dealing with my illness because of that questioning and looking different. And so I just had to continue to lean on my support to get through those tough times. I'm so glad you had such a supportive family because I can imagine what that feels like to keep a secret like that. And then to feel so othered at the same time when you're trying to fit in.

[00:10:33] It hurts my heart. Oh my gosh, James. You mentioned that you had blood transfusions. Can you walk us through maybe how that felt before and after and what it entails? So the blood transfusions came when I was in the hospital. I'm having low blood counts and I'm still in a crisis. And the only thing that can get me out of a crisis is having a blood transfusion. So I would wait in the hospital bed, you know, still getting around the clock medication.

[00:11:03] And they would come in, draw my blood and then do a type and cross, which means they had to make sure that the person that was donating the blood would match my blood. And once they found a match, I would just lie in bed. It was a simple like it could go through the same veins as the IV was running. So I didn't have to worry about getting poked again. And so it would be just like an hour process of me just receiving blood. The same way the medication or the fluids go from the IV into your veins.

[00:11:32] That's the same way the blood did. It went through the veins the same way. And I didn't feel anything until afterwards. Afterwards, I knew it was just like I had more energy. So I knew it helped me in a way that the medication couldn't get me through on time. And I look forward to those blood transfusions when I was down and out and dealing with pain crises for a week or two weeks now. I'm ready to be out of this pain. And so I expected to get a blood transfusion.

[00:12:00] And most of the time as a child, I did end up with receiving blood transfusions just to get me through that pain. Because there was no way my body could make enough blood cells to get rid of the pain on its own and just keep me from becoming anemic. So and that's the thing with sickle cell. Our blood cells are just our body is not producing enough blood cells because they're dying off so easily. It's hard to keep up. And so it's a constant battle inside of our blood.

[00:12:28] And that's why we go through that pain and experience that pain. But receiving that blood transfusions add new healthy red blood cells to your body. And so now I'm more energized. I'm not as tired. And I can feel like the blood is helping me and I'm not going through as much pain anymore. I feel like you should make a plug for anyone listening who is thinking maybe I should donate blood. Because it sounds like your quality of life would be vastly different without it.

[00:12:54] Maybe not even the chance of having a career or travel or just being able to enjoy life itself. What is the importance of having that availability to blood and how could people get involved in that? It definitely is. I consider people who donate blood superheroes because not every hero is going to be in capes and gowns. That's what we see on TV.

[00:13:17] But they come normal, like normal people donating blood because it's such a selfless act that a person who gives the blood doesn't know the ripple effect they have on people. And, you know, they're helping me stay healthy, which helps my family spend more time with me. They help. They're enabling me to have a career and work. They're enabling me to have new memories, new opportunities to do what I want to do, take vacations. So blood donors are very important. If you never donated blood before, it's easy.

[00:13:45] You just go check out your local blood banks or donation centers and they can register you. And it's just as simple. It's quicker to get blood than it is to receive blood. So it takes, I think it's like 30 minutes to donate blood. It's just through your veins and they have a way of receiving it. And so that one unit of blood, when somebody donates blood, it can affect three lives. And so you're helping save a life. So it's definitely important in people who need blood.

[00:14:13] So someone who's pregnant or someone who just had an accident may need that blood. And you're helping that person get through, let alone you're helping someone with a chronic illness like me. Well, everyone who listens to this podcast is a superhero. So when you go donate blood, tag James. Wow. So what do you think are some of the biggest misconceptions about sickle cell disease?

[00:14:38] I know that's typically a conversation on lots of panels I hear or songs that I listen to. So what are some of those? The first misconception is that it's a black disease. It's not only a black disease. It affects everybody. It's a blood disorder. So it can affect people who are from Middle Eastern backgrounds, people who are from Asia. It can affect a lot of different people. Wherever malaria is present, those people have a higher prevalence of having sickle cell trait,

[00:15:07] which is the gene that gets passed down to create sickle cells. So it can affect anybody. That's the biggest conception. When you think sickle cell, you think just only African Americans or black people have it. But that's not true. It can affect a lot of different people. Hispanics is the second largest group to have sickle cell. So that's the first misconception. The second one we see is in adults. People with sickle cell get treated so well as pediatrics and people understand the crisis that they're in.

[00:15:36] However, when you become an adult and transition from pediatrics to adult care, now that same person is being looked at as a drug seeker and being stereotyped because most of our time is spent in emergency rooms because we don't know when that crisis can come on or affect us. So a lot of times it happens out of that window when hospitals are, doctor's offices are closed. So now we have to deal with emergency rooms.

[00:16:02] And these doctors are not familiar with sickle cell patients or familiar with us as patients. And so they stereotype us and want to say that we're only there drug seeking, which is completely the opposite. We're there to be treated and we're expected to be treated. And so that's a big misconception. And it keeps people from getting the help that they need, the health care that they need when they're in these pain crises, because we can't treat ourselves when we're going through this pain crisis.

[00:16:30] Nine times out of ten, we tried everything before we go to the hospital because we remember those times. For me, I don't want to be stuck. So I remember like, oh, when I was a kid, the IVs are coming or, you know, just the uncomfortability of being somewhere I don't want to be. It's not like a vacation. It's uncomfortable to be in the hospital. And so we try everything to stay out of the hospital. But unfortunately, the medication doesn't work. And so now we need stronger medication.

[00:16:57] And when we get there, we rely on our frontline workers, which are the health care professionals, to treat us and get us back to health. But a lot of times they look at us negatively and stereotype us. And that's the big misconception that we're drug seeking. Oh, that makes me sick. So can we go back to when you decided to start to advocate or to speak up and to let everyone other than your loved ones know that you were living with sickle cell?

[00:17:25] What inspired you to do that as an adult? And then how did that experience of sharing your story sort of change your trajectory or your career path and your personal growth in general? What happened after you just let it out? The first thing was relief because I felt this is almost like a secret that you hold in for so long. And then eventually you finally want to tell somebody.

[00:17:51] And so I got tired of, you know, going through life and really not sharing who I really was and talking about my experiences because behind closed doors, you know, I was going through this pain. I was crying about having sickle cell. I was fed up. And so I knew that I wasn't the only one going through it. That led me to want to speak out for others, especially when I went to the hospital.

[00:18:14] And the one time I did face stigma when I was about 20 years old, I remember going to the hospital and having a doctor not believe me. And that was the first time I experienced that pain. I'm sitting in the waiting room. For one, we wait a long time in an emergency room. So three, four hours, five hours, six hours. That's too long to wait when you're in pain. When you have beds available.

[00:18:37] And so as someone waiting in pain and finally being able to get back and see a doctor and a doctor's questioning me, like, if I was in this much pain, why didn't I come in sooner? We can just give you a dose of medication and send you home. Well, that's not what I was looking for. I was looking to be taken care of. And so I thought to myself, this isn't only happening to me. This is happening to other people around the world. And so I wanted to speak out and be that voice for people who didn't get the care that they properly should have got.

[00:19:07] Because I felt like 90% of my time I did receive good care. But I knew it was others who wasn't getting that care all the time like I was. And so just the love of people made me want to speak out because I knew what they were going through. And so that's what led me to speak out. And doing so, it just opened up, you know, a new world to me. I didn't know anything about advocating. But just sharing my story, I seen how much it was needed and how much my story was helping other people.

[00:19:35] And I didn't know the way to speak out. So I first spoke out through writing a book. I wrote a book about my life titled Breaking Silence Liquid with Sickle Cell Anemia. And after writing a book, I had a parent email me and she said, Thank you, James, for writing your book because your story helped me understand my child. And so after hearing that, I felt like what I was doing was the right thing to do. And that continued to push me to do more for others and speak out more.

[00:20:04] And so that's what led me to speaking out. And it just opened up new doors for me. And I've been able to meet so many people in this rare disease space like you who don't have sickle cell in their family or a child with sickle cell. They have something else. But it's the understanding. When I walk into a room and I see someone else going through something, it's immediate understanding of I know what they go through and how can we help each other deal with what we're going through our situations. Because we can learn from each other as people.

[00:20:35] And so it's always important to put yourself around people who may be going through similar things as you because you can get through it a lot easier than someone who may not understand where you're coming from. And so it's a look in the person's eyes that I know when I go into a room that they're going through the same thing I'm going through and we understand each other. And it's been a great thing for me to speak out because I'm helping so many people.

[00:20:58] And I'm able to live the way I want to live, live authentically and not have anything to worry about because I know the people who accept me for me are going to be there for me. And so the others who are not, who don't accept it or who have something negative, then they weren't meant to be in my life. So that's what I've learned along the way. James, you're a superhero.

[00:21:19] I think that it says so much about you as a human and as an advocate when you're in a situation that is completely hard and awful and maybe you're not being believed and you're in pain. And the thought that you have is not about you. It's about, oh my gosh, I bet this is worse for someone else. I have to do something about it. That is such a profound characteristic of who you are. So I love that about you. Thank you. Have you developed a specific language or strategies?

[00:21:48] And I'm sure this stuff is in your book about when you're in that position, maybe in the ER and you're not being believed or even before that. What are the strategies or the language that you use to describe the pain in a way that the doctor or the nurse is going to understand the urgency and believe the situation? The first thing which helps me before I even get to the emergency room, I make sure to stay in contact with my doctor.

[00:22:10] So it's always important to have a doctor, have a regular doctor that you see, because if you don't, then it's like you're not really in control of your care. And so having that regular primary doctor, even if it's a specialty doctor, it's important that you stay in constant communication with them so I can let them know I'm having this pain. They can also inform the emergency room. I also make sure that, you know, I follow up with my appointments.

[00:22:37] So after I get discharged from a hospital, I make sure I do those follow ups so that they see I want to stay in control of my health. But when I get there, the language that I use is it's unbearable. It feels like being hit repeatedly with a hammer or bat. Anyone who's ever broken a bone, I can put it in that perspective. It feels like breaking a bone and it's even worse than that. But it just feels like a sharp, constant pain and I'm constantly repeatedly being hit with something harder.

[00:23:04] And so I just make sure that I try my best to relay that and try my best to not let anything, what I'm going through, my emotions get the best of me and able to talk it out. Because communication is key in the emergency room and it's also an advantage for me if I can get someone to come to the emergency room. Caregivers are important. They can talk for you when you can't talk for yourself because that pain can get to the level where you don't want to speak up.

[00:23:32] And so now they're going to treat you any kind of way. But if you have someone by your side, they can help you speak up when you can't remember the medications, the doses or the last time you took it. They can help you speak up on those points. They can't tell you how you feel, but they can help you speak up with those things. And just letting them know that, you know, I'm having this pain and it's definitely hurting me and it's definitely something that I need help to take care of.

[00:23:59] Are there any moments that stand out where you did feel seen or heard and that you didn't have to prove something that was sort of memorable? Like what made that interaction different if you had a moment like that? Yes, it's a lot of because there's so much. It's a lot of familiar familiarity with me. And so just having nurses who remember you. Nurses are so important. It's so key. We spend 90 percent of our time with nurses.

[00:24:25] And so just having those nurses who remember you or a nurse who understands what sickle cell is. I didn't have nurses when I got back. They've already had the medication or knew the medication that I was going to get. They had the IVs ready. And so that took a lot of pressure off of me to explain myself. And they knew, OK, you're in pain. What can I get to give you to get this pain under control? So having a nurse listen to you and make you feel seen is definitely important because now you don't have to explain.

[00:24:54] And that's the one thing as patients that we want when we're in the hospital. We just want to be heard and understood. And just having that nurse relieves our stress can take some pain away just by not having to think about explaining ourselves, the emotional toll that goes along with having sickle cells. So it's definitely a lot of nurses that played a key moment in my part going through the hospital systems and in the ER that stepped up and said,

[00:25:21] oh, this patient needs this or I'll take care of him because I'm familiar with his chart. And so it's a lot of nurses that did step up for me. If you could go back and talk to your younger self, James, what would you say to yourself about living with sickle cell? I would say embrace it. Accept who you are. You know, it's not something to be ashamed of because that's ultimately what it came down for me. I was ashamed of having sickle cell because I thought, you know, I'm going to be judged by it.

[00:25:51] I don't want to be seen as different. And when I was eight years old, I had an experience playing on the playground. When I did share that I had sickle cell, it was on a holiday weekend. And so I'm at the park and it's my cousins and me. And I say that I have sickle cell because I'm tired and everybody starts running away from me and saying, oh, he's got a disease. And so when that moment happened, I've internalized that moment for so long.

[00:26:16] It's like, OK, I'm never going to open up again because I don't want to feel what I felt at this moment. And so I kept that ahead and because of that. But I would say embrace who you are and continue to open up and just accept who you are. You have sickle cell, but you can still do things. So just accept what you can do. Learn the difference between what you can and what you can't do and continue to just enjoy being who you are. That's what I would say to myself.

[00:26:46] I love that. Let's make another plug for your book. First of all, tell us the name of it and where people can find it and maybe just a couple highlights of the content they're going to get out of it. The book is called Breaking Silence, Living with Sickle Cell Anemia. It's on Amazon, so you can get it off Amazon or Barnes and Noble online. In this book, you'll find more stories of me going through what the pain feels like and how I've had to deal with the pain throughout my life.

[00:27:15] How it's affected relationships because people don't know that pain affects every area of your life. And so it affected relationships. There were times where I wasn't as social because of some of the things I couldn't do. And so I go into detail about how it made me feel in that regard. Also talk about work. Work. So, you know, just being an adult and having responsibilities and wanting to work. And there are times that jobs don't understand. And so I have to explain for my job what I'm going through.

[00:27:44] In many cases, I had to leave jobs because they didn't know when I was in the hospital that I couldn't make it to work. And so, you know, I had to leave jobs. So it's constantly finding what I can do and finding an employer who would understand me enough to know when I was in the hospital that I really was in the hospital or when I was sick that I did need to time off because I was sick. So I talk about that. I talk about my family and how they supported me.

[00:28:10] And the key to getting through difficult times is having support around you. And so I talk about how they helped me get through those tough times when I was feeling all alone. And that's a lot of what you're going to get in the book, let alone hospital stays, how they affected me and what that looked like from the time I was admitted to what kind of care I got. And then how it looked when I was released. I can't wait to read it.

[00:28:36] I'm sad I've already missed it up until now because I think that me and I know all of our listeners can resonate with those subjects so deeply. So proud of you for writing it. Thank you for your advocacy and for your storytelling and for being so brave and for really, you know, discovering a deep sense of yourself and sharing it with other people. It's so important, especially with a disease like sickle cell that not many people understand and can't understand fully unless you have it.

[00:29:03] So I guess, James, for my last question, what is sort of your lofty vision for the future? And what would you tell someone about being brave and telling people who you are and just being an advocate in general? Or if someone is really just feeling isolated, what would you say to them? I would say that when it comes to being brave, share your story because you don't know who you're going to help. It's actually going to help you in the long run. It's going to help you get through it.

[00:29:32] And if people don't understand what you're dealing with, people can't help you. And so when you share your story, now you have the option to have the help you may need, the help you may want, and the relationships you may want. Just being authentic. I always say when you're living authentically, the world will open up to you like a flower blooming under the sun. So that's my first thing. Just be who you are. Be authentic and be brave in your story. Your story is your story. You can't change that. You can't change who you are.

[00:30:01] I wouldn't want to change anything because it's helped me grow. It's helped me learn about myself. It's helped me become patient. It's helped me understand people. It's helped me give love to people. So it's definitely something I wouldn't go back to change. It's just it made me who I am. It made me stronger. And I would say that when you go through things, you never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have. And so you are strong and your story is your story. So don't be ashamed about your story. Share your story.

[00:30:31] And you're going to help reach a lot of people. You can help reach a lot of people just by sharing your story because all it takes is one person to make a change. And that's what I would say to people who are listening. Amen. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Well, James, thank you so much for being my guest. And thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for writing your book. Everybody go buy it. It'll be linked in the show notes. Go donate blood. Tag James.

[00:30:59] James, where can we find you online? I'm on Facebook and Instagram under my name, James Griffin. You can find me on there, and I look forward to connecting with those who listen to the show. And I thank you for interviewing me. This has definitely been a real great opportunity for me to continue to spread sickle cell awareness because I always say I'm raising sickle cell awareness one person at a time. And so you helped me reach more people today. And so I'm grateful for that.

[00:31:26] I also want to give a shout out, a special shout out to the caregivers because we don't know the shoes they walk in. Each of us walks in different shoes. Me as a patient, I go through things, but I don't know what it's like for my mother or the person I'm with, you know, at the same time. So I think we have to understand that we're each walking in different shoes, but it's hard on both of us at times.

[00:31:51] And so we have to understand both people's situations so that, you know, we can get through it together because we're in this together. So James, listen to that. Yes. Yes. Okay. Well, I could just talk to you forever. But I know you're a busy man and you got to go back to your life in the cold, cold weather over there. So thanks, James. I really appreciate it. I'm so excited to share our conversation. I think that your story is 100% going to reach at least that one person that you speak of.

[00:32:20] And that is all it takes. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for having me again. I hope you've been enjoying this podcast. If you like what you hear, please share this show with your people. And please make sure to rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also head over to Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter to connect with me and stay updated on the show.

[00:32:42] If you're interested in sharing your story or if you have anything you would like to contribute, please submit it to my website at effieparks.com. Thank you so much for listening to the show and for supporting me along the way. I appreciate you all so much. I don't know what kind of day you're having, but if you need a little pick-me-up, Ford's got you. I don't know what kind of day you're having, but if you need a little pick-me-up, Ford's got you.