ONCE UPON A GENE – EPISODE 274: Caregiver Archetypes of Survival (Part 4) | The Victim Archetype: From Cowardly Lion to Roaring Warrior – Reclaiming Your Inner Courage Without Losing Yourself with Christy Foster

[00:00:03] I'm Effie Parks. Welcome to Once Upon A Gene, the podcast. This is a place I created for us to connect and share the stories of our not-so-typical lives. Raising kids who are born with rare genetic syndromes and other types of disabilities can feel pretty isolating. What I know for sure is that when we can hear the triumphs and challenges from others who get it, we can find a lot more laughter, a lot more hope, and feel a lot less alone.

[00:00:31] I believe there are some magical healing powers that can happen for all of us through sharing our stories, and I'll take all the help I can get. Once Upon A Gene is proud to be part of Bloodstream Media. Living in a family affected by rare and chronic illness can be isolating, and sometimes the best medicine is connecting to the voices of people who share your experience.

[00:00:56] This is why Bloodstream Media produces podcasts, blogs, and other forms of content for patients, families, and clinicians impacted by rare and chronic diseases. Visit bloodstreammedia.com to learn more. Okay, hello and welcome back, Christy Foster, my sister. This is our final installment of our four-part Archetype series, and I'm really excited, as usual, to talk about this with you, Christy. So thank you for being here. My pleasure. I'm excited to be back, Effie.

[00:01:24] Okay, so you're going to have to tell us all the things about the victim. I was trying to think which character it is in The Wizard of Oz. The lion. The lion. Yeah, that makes sense. Duh. Okay, Christy, can you start by defining victim archetype for us and take us back?

[00:01:43] Yes. So what I'm going to do, actually, Effie, is start, take us back to The Wizard of Oz, because it's important that we not attach to the archetypes personally, because the archetypes are neutral. They exist because they exist. Dr. Carl Jung, Dr. Carolyn Mace reemphasized this again and again, that they are neutral. And so as you listen to me, please remember that, especially in the beginning of the podcast.

[00:02:12] So if we go back to The Wizard of Oz, and hopefully you have seen it. If not, please watch it. The lion represents the victim archetype. So as you remember, the lion, he was called the cowardly lion. So he would tremble. He would say, I'm sorry. He would talk in a little tiny voice. He was afraid of his own roar. He was afraid of his own power because he wasn't aware that he had it.

[00:02:41] And he's the one in The Wizard of Oz that longs for courage. And his journey in The Wizard of Oz isn't about slaying monsters and being the strongest one. It's about him really realizing that the courage was within him all along and that it already exists. And we as human beings, everyone is victimized at some point in time in their life with various experiences.

[00:03:08] And Effie, we're on your podcast about children and parents that have challenges. And when you're raising children with disabilities, I can only imagine that at many times one might feel powerless or feel like I have no idea what to do and grab your tail and hold your little self and go, I don't know what to do. And that is so real.

[00:03:33] And I would also say so courageous to notice that you don't know what to do. Because sometimes people can go into a whole level of control to not notice that they feel out of control. And the pendulum can swing back and forth so much that they will over control because they feel out of control. Or they feel that victim archetype of not feeling courageous.

[00:04:01] And the patterns of that, sometimes the language of that is, why did this happen to me? And I think anyone would say that because no one asks for that. And yet, here we are. And that is this process of turning that courage into a roar. And Effie, with your podcast and everything that you've done, a big part of what you've done is found your courage. And it's going from victim to warrior.

[00:04:31] It's the alchemization and or I would even say the dance that the victim archetype moves in and out with the warrior. So making room for that victim archetype, noticing when you feel victimized. Because I'm sure there's many times, especially with doctors or when stuff breaks or you don't have the support that you need. We will make room for that part of feeling victimized.

[00:05:01] And then how can you make room for grabbing that part of you, that warrior in you, and having that part of you fight for truth, for dignity, for what you know is true about your kid. And doctors might not know. That's that roar that the lion in the Wizard of Oz is searching for. And finally, it is found. And we're talking about human beings, though. And it's not a matter of removing fear.

[00:05:31] It's a matter of being aware that the fear is there and responding in a different way. But I think one of the most important things is making room for that feeling of disorientation and that feeling of what the actual F just happened. Because that's where we can go into control or shut down. I think there's probably those two on the spectrum. And both are appropriate. That there's nothing wrong with you if you tend to be a control freak. I think every human is on some level.

[00:06:01] And or you shut down because you don't know what to do. And my whole intention with even talking about this is can you give yourself some room to feel like the victim archetype, quote unquote? Give yourself some space for that. And then if like with my clients, I love having representation of things because it's helpful.

[00:06:26] So as simple as having a representation of your warrior could be a like a Wonder Woman bracelet on the side of your bed. That when you're ready, you put on that arm bracelet and you're like, okay, I still have to show up because someone has to put his feeding tube in. Speaking of forward. Someone still has to. And that is going to be Wonder Woman today, me. Even though I want to grab my tail and hide and say I don't know what to do.

[00:06:56] Both of those aspects can exist at the same time. You don't have to be one or the other all the time. It's okay to make room for, okay, here we are. And that representation is super helpful because it's something you can hold. It's something that represents warrior. Like it could even literally be a shield. It could be some type of sword.

[00:07:22] I actually have a real sword that I use for various types of work in that the representation of the sword is warrior. I will take up my sword. And the sword also represents truth within the archetypes. The sword of truth. And Effie, with your podcast, what you have done and I think broken through is you've brought that sword of truth and allowed people to feel uncomfortable. And I think that is the gift.

[00:07:50] Because it's okay to feel uncomfortable because there's nothing comfortable about it. And the obvious things that are not spoken or looked away from, someone's got to hold a sword and say you need to look over here. And that is warrior. That is the dance and the alchemization, the pieces inside your system shifting. And it's always shifting. And I'm sure you can relate to that.

[00:08:16] Some of the key phrases with warrior, which might also be helpful, which I can share with you, is I have the resources I need. And that literally may be taking a breath. That may be going on a walk. That may be having a drink of water, shutting the door and going pee. The resources don't have to be people all the time or money. It can literally be, okay, I'm going to take a deep breath.

[00:08:44] I'm going to go outside and close the door for 10 minutes. I guess one of the challenging pieces is to know what it is you need to feel resourced. I would choose one or two. So you have them. And yes, I would tell you to put them on your fridge. Because when you feel that going into that victim archetype, it is very difficult to reach your hand up and take a resource. Because sometimes you can't.

[00:09:11] But if you can see them on your fridge or in your bedroom, that is a moving towards something. And it can be so simple. Like getting some food. Like taking a shower. That that is your warrior coming back in to take action for the day or take action for the moment. To shift the feeling of... Because it's like a...

[00:09:37] I would describe that as a really heavy blanket that comes over your nervous system and you feel like time stops. And yet you're still doing all the things. You're still taking care of and doing. And yet there's a part of you that's not functioning inside. Which is very natural. Noticing when that happens is the part of this podcast that I hope people understand. Noticing is probably the hardest part. Because the victim archetype can just swallow you whole. Yeah. I just want to do story time with Christy.

[00:10:07] I don't even think I need to speak. You can just... Yeah. Tell us everything. You made me think of so many things in just that intro to the victim. You know, first you mentioned that maybe it was like this. One of the bravest things you can do is to acknowledge that you don't know what's happening. Or something similar you said. Because it made me think. Everybody in our community says it feels so good when a doctor just says, I don't know. You know?

[00:10:34] Rather than we'll figure it out or we'll get to the answer or just wait and see. But when they actually just honestly say, I don't know. It makes parents feel so much better. And it makes them feel seen. Right? So if we know how good that feels for us. When we just allow the humanity from the doctor not knowing to actually give us some like hope. Why can't we do that for ourselves? That sounds really simple, Effie. The question sounds simple, right?

[00:11:03] And I don't think it's simple. Because the nervous system is on overload and firing and wiring and going, okay, now what? Now what? Now what? And it's very difficult to do when you're on the internal receiving end of that. And you probably say many times a day, I don't know what to do. And yet I'm going to do something because it's required of you regardless. That's courage. Yeah. I also call it going ice sometimes. Yeah. Depending on what we're doing.

[00:11:33] You know, like when you have to hold your kit down or whatever. You have to sort of disassociate, I guess is sort of the buzzword right now. But you really have to focus, right? Like you have to completely float above your body and get it done, right? Like you can't sit in it when you have to make a decision. And I wonder how you repair what can happen when you have to do that a lot.

[00:11:59] Well, I think repair is a good word because in a lifetime with a child with disabilities, it's a lifetime of repair because so many things happen out of your control. And like, just like you said, you have to hold your kid down while they do blank. There's a part of my brain wants to say, Effie, okay, disassociation is a word. Yes. And I think in this context, maybe it could be said differently.

[00:12:26] So instead of disassociating, would it be possible to put on that warrior shield, that pull up your boots, stay in your body, know that the warrior is the one holding the child, not the mama, because mamas, that's too hard. The warrior holding the child, the warrior being with the doctor. What does your warrior look like? What does your warrior need to wear to go to the hospital?

[00:12:54] Because the warrior can show up, I believe, as practiced sometimes, not every time because there's no perfection. But could the warrior be the one holding? Because we can invoke that energy instead of disassociating or going freeze or ice. Totally appropriate though too. Please know there isn't one perfect answer. I just think it's helpful to know that there might be other ways besides leaving your body

[00:13:21] and floating above the room, because that does require a lot of repair. Versus a warrior, if we think of a warrior, a warrior goes to war, gets cut, has a bullet, gets slashed, is bleeding, he comes home or goes to the hospital and they put stuff in the wound so it doesn't get infected. That could be rest. It could be calling a friend and having a good cry. It could be taking a really long nap. What is repair for you?

[00:13:51] And that's what I would ask you to ask yourself is, okay, after I go to war, which might be holding your child down, what's my repair? And I would tell you that your body already knows what that is. But you want to ask that question before you're in warrior mode, because then your brain doesn't work, right? You're in warrior mode and everything with warrior is to survive and fight the battle so you don't die.

[00:14:15] So if you have already a list or a journal of, okay, this is what I can do for repair. What? And you can ask your body. Obviously, there's different ways to do it. And we could walk through that. But you can, our bodies are the most intelligent thing on the planet. It knows what you need. But our brains try to make sense of something that might not make sense. Because it could be, well, you need to go put your feet in dirt.

[00:14:44] It could be you need to sit up against a tree. It could be connecting back to nature because nature doesn't require you to give. Nature holds us and we forget that. And then we reach for a device or we reach for a drink or we reach for food or sex or shopping. The list is endless for what we reach for when what's most present is what's already holding us. That's the first question I would ask is how do you connect back to nature?

[00:15:11] I don't care if you look out your window at a tree for five minutes and notice the tree. We want to come back into repair and notice instead of being in that hypervigilance, which you are, and you begin to notice your surroundings and noticing your breath. That's repair. But it's a conversation that needs to be had and probably journaled about or explored before warrior comes out. Because you look at like any good warrior.

[00:15:40] I think of 300, my most favorite warrior film. Beautiful man, number one. And I also love every part, even the sacrifice because he died for his people, his child, his wife. You're not thinking about those things when you're in warrior mode. You're doing what's best. And so ask yourself, if I come home from doing something with my kid at the hospital or at school, what do I need for repair?

[00:16:09] So Effie, are there things that you've started to notice that help you repair after a super stressful event with Ford? Well, you taught me this a long time ago and I recognized walking, swear to God, as one of the best forms of therapy. But I also have really heavily gotten into hot yoga.

[00:16:32] So I make it almost seven days a week and it is just like one of the best gifts I have ever given myself. That it is making me my best self yet lately. Anyways, it feels good and I'm such a better mom and I'm such a better wife and like I get more done around my house. Like it just makes all of the other parts of my jobs more fun and better.

[00:16:59] And I don't know what the witchcraft is in it, but it is doing, I think maybe it's all the sweating of the toxins, you know? I don't know. But that's what I'm doing. Well, you're 90 minutes. Do you do a 90 minute class or a 60? Not that it matters. It's mostly 60. Okay, so we have 60 minutes. Let's just look at the witch magic because it isn't magic. 60 minutes.

[00:17:23] You put on your towel, you have your water bottle and you're sweating profusely for 60 minutes. And the most important thing is the voice at the front of the room, right? Giving you directions of what stretch you're going into, what breath you're doing. Nothing else matters but that moment because it's challenging. Hot yoga is hard, which I love that.

[00:17:47] I really get, I know that my personality really enjoys doing hard things because I know I can. What I love about hot yoga, Effie, is it's enjoyable for me to be that uncomfortable and still relax at the same time, which is kind of an oxymoron. But what you're doing is you're allowing your nervous system and you're setting up your nervous

[00:18:10] system to sweat out the stress, for example, sweat out that how much effort it takes to be Ford's mom. And you get a reset 60 minutes once a day. And then what happens is your capacity to be a mother and a warrior and a podcaster goes from this little tiny six inch circle to a three foot circle. And you're like, game on. That's what that does in yoga. So some people can walk.

[00:18:39] I like the yoga though, the hot yoga, because you're not going in and wear for an hour where out on a walk, you can get on your phone. Or listen to a podcast or, you know, activate the brain. Wearing yoga, you're not going to wear headphones. Your only job is to listen to the instructor and breathe. I have to plug in my computer. Hold on. Don't forget where you're at. There we go. Yeah. Yeah. And I even noticed, you know, because I had like my watch, right, to like track all

[00:19:09] my stuff all day. And I was like, oh, my God, I can't wear that in yoga because it did that. It like made me, you know, like someone called and it was Ford's school. Like I remember it was Ford's school and I was in yoga and I was like, ugh. But like all those distractions, like you can just take it off and leave it in the locker. Yeah. And that was also like a no brainer. And when I was like, duh, what are you doing? You're not even here if you're, if you're wearing that still. Right. Because it's constant. It's like a tether.

[00:19:38] It's a tether to the outer world that you never get away from except that 60 minutes in yoga. And in that 60 minutes, you know that he's okay. He's being taken care of. If someone really needed to get a hold of you, they would. Right. Because they know where you're at. But that 60 minutes, I'm guessing too, Effie, you had to learn how to let go of control about what's happening outside of yoga in that 60 minutes.

[00:20:07] Because the brain is so used to functioning on hyperdrive that it takes a while for it to realize it doesn't have to in those 60 minutes. Yeah. Well, and then, you know, there's so much to it. Like you have the body awareness, right? Like you notice what things are hurting or what things, you know, you can push harder on. You can really actively pay more attention to like where you're holding things. And Effie, that is repair. Yeah. So if you are, I get the word disassociation.

[00:20:37] I would rather use a different word because I think it's a... It holds such weird... Well, that's why I said go ice. I said go ice. Yeah. I don't love that because there's so much that comes with that. So I'm going to use the word go warrior. Okay. So you activate your warrior and you show up, you continue to show up. And in that 60 minutes, Effie, that's repair. Because you just said exactly what you were talking about before. Well, I realized my body is sore or I realized I'm tired.

[00:21:06] Or actually, I've cried in yoga many times, Effie. And in hot yoga, nobody knows because... And it doesn't matter because there's tears coming out of your eyes. And so is sweat. That's a beautiful space for repair because you're literally held in a container of that space. That's repair, which is why you're doing better. Just like you said, you go seven days a week. Four doesn't go away on Friday and Saturday, Sunday.

[00:21:33] Seven days a week, I think is fabulous because your life is seven days a week. Mm-hmm. So what you're learning with when ice warrior shows up, then my repair is also in place. So I can function because that life outside of yoga is still there when you leave and shower. I mean, I can talk about hot yoga forever. It's like the relationship too that you have with like your teacher that they don't even

[00:22:01] know that you have with them, you know, and like what you're getting from them. And it's just so fulfilling. Like someone's taking care of you in that room. You're also taking care of you in that room. Yeah. It's just a magical thing. I think everyone should do it, but I can't get anyone to do it because then nobody wants to sweat. Because it's uncomfortable. That reminded me of that view that you were talking about of instead of going outside of your body or doing whatever, the visual of imagine you being the warrior who's holding

[00:22:31] your kid down is honestly a really empowering visual. And it kind of relaxes me a little to think about it that way. And also like kind of makes me feel like a badass. Like I think that's a really, really cool reframe. And I'm totally going to try it next time. And it's, I think that could be a game changer for a lot of people. Well, I hope so. And I would tell you to find something that represents your warrior.

[00:23:00] I can't emphasize that enough. So when you look at a bracelet or a ring or a necklace, it can be so simple. Or if you know you're going to an appointment and you buy a special pair of boots for that appointment, you're stepping into physically stepping into the archetype of warrior. And then when you come home, you take them off and you step back into mother and human. I was at a family conference this summer. Shout out to CSNK2A1.

[00:23:29] And I was leading a storytelling workshop. And I asked a couple of the parents in the room to come up and tell like a three to five minute story just off the cuff. And this one woman got up and she talked about these cowgirl boots that she, I can't remember how she got them or if they had any meeting before, but she had decided that she had been having so much trouble with her school and the IEPs and getting them to help with her kid that she armed herself with her new boots, her cowgirl boots.

[00:23:59] And she said that that was her power. And she went in and like cleaned house in that meeting because of those boots. Effie, that's called invoking the archetype. That's a thing. She invoked the archetype of the warrior. She told a great story. She did a good job. That'd be a perfect story to tell though, because everyone could relate to that too. And to ask yourself as a parent listening to the podcast, what's my thing that would make me feel empowered?

[00:24:25] Pair of boots, a necklace, a hat, a shirt, could be a superhero shirt, superhero underwear. I don't care. What matters is what, what is it for you? And the invocation of the archetype is a real thing. Do you think, I think of, you know, 300 or the gladiator again, when they put on that uniform, there is no thought. They do go ice. They don't disassociate or they would die.

[00:24:50] Number one, they fully embody the archetype and then they go into battle knowing that they're going to win. Why would a warrior be a warrior if they thought they were going to die? Knowing that you matter and what the warrior archetype is in this context is that courage is not the absence of fear. And you're acting despite it. That is warrior and that you are an advocate warrior.

[00:25:18] You're protecting your child. You are coming into what's called sacred action, doing something like you said, she cleaned house. Something had to be done. Those are sacred acts, A-C-T-S, acts of invoking the warrior archetype and letting it flow through you embodied, not disassociated. I think that's really important to get and to practice because some days you'll be able to, some days you won't. There is no perfect.

[00:25:47] But what does it feel like to be in a warrior in your body? What would the warrior stand like? What would the warrior move like? I would practice playing like role playing with what is a warrior. Warriors don't tuck their little tail and hold onto it and snivel and go, I don't know what to do. Warriors take a stand, take up space, allow their roar, lion, to be heard. They open their chest. Remember when he pounded on his chest at the very end?

[00:26:17] Because he was activating and embodying his archetypal warrior. And I know it sounds funny. I would do it anyway because until you personally feel, what does my warrior sound like? What would she or he wear? How would he move? It's just theory and talk. I'd like everyone to make a reel about what your warrior looks like and sounds like, please and tag me in it. Oh, that's a great idea. Yeah.

[00:26:43] So what do you say to the many parents I know right now who are hollering at this podcast saying, but I don't want to fight all the time. My entire life is a fight for my kid and I'm so tired of fighting. I would say you're totally right. Totally right. And what do you need to have, do, be to receive some repair? Because unless you repair, that story can't change because the burnout is so high. That's a true statement, right?

[00:27:12] So what is it you need for repair? What is it you need as a resource, even if it is to go pee by yourself and scroll on your phone? If you can start to categorize those pieces that are resources for you, that you actually do have a say in one little piece, it will help. When we're fully into that space of there's nothing I can do and I'm exhausted, please listen to that and rest or go to hot yoga.

[00:27:39] And sometimes literally you have to take your own hand and say, okay, Christy, get off the couch. You're going to take your ass to yoga today. I don't care how you feel. And you can lay on the mat for 60 minutes. You don't even have to move. Sometimes you have to take your own hand. Your own inner warrior has to take your own inner victim and say, no, we're getting off the couch and we're going here today. I literally talk to myself like that out loud all day long. Well, it's helpful. Does everybody do that?

[00:28:08] Because I have to tell myself stuff all day long. But that's real, Effie. That's real. And that's being vulnerable because I promise you every human has that going on in their head. There's just a lot of shame held around it because it sucks and you don't want to. And yet you have to. Both exist. And to speak it out loud is really helpful because I don't know a human alive who wouldn't feel victimized.

[00:28:36] And when we get into burnout, there's just like nothing left. It's like a balloon without any air. So I guess what are some of the things to notice when you are unknowingly stepping into like a victim archetype? Okay, let me. There's two things. There's the language of the victim. And please know the language is neutral there again. There's specific language that goes with the archetype, which is this isn't fair. That's a big one. Why does this always happen to me?

[00:29:06] Why did this happen to me? No one ever helps me. Like those kind of things. It's almost like the pattern of feeling like you're an island unto yourself. And when you start to hear those voices in your head, that's an indication that you are starting to dance with the victim archetype. And that's how I would phrase it. Because a dance requires us to move in and out of the pattern. So if you're feeling like nobody cares, nobody understands, why did this happen to me?

[00:29:35] I would suggest having in place maybe your favorite podcast, Effie, from your whatever, because you've had a lot of amazing people on your podcast. What's the favorite podcast that helped you the most pull out of that feeling victimized that you have no power? Or to go outside and look at the sky and look at the trees. You don't have to think or do anything.

[00:30:01] But to come back in your body, because I think disassociation is part of the victim archetype and floating above your body and watching you do the dishes and do your kid and all the things because it's too difficult to be in your body. So what is it that helps you be in your body? It could be a breathwork class. It could be a soundable class. Soundables are fantastic. You don't have to do anything but lay there. You could do yoga. Some people don't love yoga. You could go to a Tai Chi class.

[00:30:31] What is something that gets you back in your body that will help you feel like you have a choice again? So there again, that might take you taking your own hand. What are some choices I have? That's, I mean, you need to know what those are before you go into victim. Because if you don't know, it's going to be the same cycle 10,000 times. And it only requires you to make one choice, not 10. One choice might be to take a hot shower, go outside, listen to a podcast.

[00:31:01] But you need to know what they are before you can pull yourself out. It's so important. That reservoir, right? That toolbox, whatever you want to call it. That's already there. That's easy to get or practice because you've maybe made it a habit already, which is really what makes it super easy to grab a hold. And I love, yeah, the reminder of like not having to think about it, right? Because that's just one more decision that you have to make. But if it's so simple because you know that it nourishes you. Yeah.

[00:31:32] You're going to get so much better at it every time you have to make that decision. It's going to come to you quicker. It's going to come to you easier. It's going to be less work in all of the ways, like a muscle, right? It'll be, it's like working a muscle. Yeah. Yeah. And Effie, I would even say too that if a parent gets to that point, which you said you have people saying, I'm tired of fighting. So every parent gets to that point.

[00:31:58] Please know that there's people out there who will fight even when you're tired and do the fighting for you on some level. And that's okay too for a little while. And if you can see that in a way of, if we can shift it out of, out of victim to, I'm just going to use you as an example, Effie. If you're feeling that way, I'm just too tired, Effie. I don't want to fight.

[00:32:20] Then could they allow you to hold that fight for a day as a representation that you're still going to show up and do your podcast, even though blank, blank, blank, that torch can be held while they have repair and who knows how long the repair takes. Yeah. So you're making me think of asking for help, right? Like part of the victim is never asking for help, not knowing you can ask for help. Because no one ever helps me. Yeah.

[00:32:48] Whereas my help is also one of the pieces. No one ever helps me and I don't get help. I don't have any resources. This isn't fair. All of those are shadow aspects of the voice in the head that become the bully in the head. Well, and also receiving it, right? Because like we'll all get told over and over and over, let me know how I can help. Let me know how I'll come up. I'm here to help. But, or can I bring you dinner? And it's easy and pretty common for everyone to just say, no, it's okay. Thanks.

[00:33:18] You know, like to not accept it. But how would you encourage or like, I guess some help someone think through that question and actually listen to the question and decide if you do need that help or if you want to take that dinner instead of just off the cuff being like, oh yeah, it's all good. And thanks. Yeah. Maybe next time. Like maybe don't take the rain check all the time. Right. I would ask the question of what is it you're feeling if I do say, Effie, would you bring me dinner? I mean, right?

[00:33:47] That's the thing. Like if someone asked me for help, I would feel so amazing that I could help them. Like it helps you help them, right? Help me help you. You actually, it helps everyone in the whole circle. The person who's helping you get so much like love and, you know, gratification by being able to help you. And then you obviously are being helped. I mean, I can't say it any more simple, but.

[00:34:15] There's a piece underneath that, Effie, that needs to be asked is I'm not asking for help or not receiving help because I feel blank. That's something you grow up with that is modeled by your parents and your culture. What is that belief that keeps you from saying, would you please bring me dinner? Because if that belief isn't looked at, you're going to just intellectualize it so much that it doesn't. And then it puts you on the same loop again.

[00:34:44] That's really interesting. Yeah. Because some people will perceive it as weakness. I'm weak if I need someone to make me dinner. I'm not in control if I need someone to take my kid for an hour. I feel guilty for asking for help because that means I'm not a good mother and I'm not handling or a good dad. I'm not handling the way I should. But those parts come from your childhood. How did that look with your parents? Did they ask for help? Were they able to receive help?

[00:35:11] And another piece with this, and it's a nuance. And part of that is if I ask for help, if I call and ask Effie for dinner, then I'm going to owe her and I can't owe her. I'm too exhausted to owe her. And that will stop people from asking because it's like an ingrained piece in your DNA. I don't want to owe anyone, so I'm not going to ask for help. I don't want to be beholden to them. That also comes from your family system. It isn't you.

[00:35:40] It's your family system that is in that head telling you what life is like because this is what the culture is like that you think is real. And it is real in your head. Doesn't mean it's real for other people, though. And I would also suggest having a conversation with your friend that might ask for dinner to talk and say something like, hey, Effie, I would love to have you bring me dinner, but I worry that there are strings attached.

[00:36:06] Could we talk about the strings that I might, you know, I don't know what it is for you personally, but what are the what's underneath the why you can't ask for help and have a conversation with someone about that to work through it so it makes it easier the next time you need dinner to have someone help you? Because we all come from family systems that are dysfunctional. There is not a perfect family system ever, never.

[00:36:31] And it's very important to know what your family system is that you come from and how did they act when in victim archetype? That's how I would ask that question. How did my mother, father or caretaker, whatever that was, act when they needed help or when they felt despair or exhaustion? They just got up off the couch with a broken leg and went to soccer practice anyway, right? And that's looked at as a badge of honor. But is it or is it insanity? I don't know.

[00:37:00] That's your question to ask yourself as a parent is where what's the belief and can I shift that belief? And absolutely you can, but you actually have to look at the belief first. It's so much work. Yes. Yes. And though, because I hear that all the time, and though, I would say it's way more expensive energetically to not look. Because eventually something breaks and you're forced to ask for help. Yep.

[00:37:25] Dr. Gabor Mate has one of the absolute best podcasts on this and I can send it to you, Effie. And there's science coming in now of research showing that people pleasing and overdoing, overgiving starts to make your immune system break down and you become sick. What's the podcast called? It is, let me pull it up really quick. It's on YouTube and it's about an hour long.

[00:37:53] It's called, this one is Dr. Gabor Mate, M-A-T-E, When the Body Says No. And he has so much on YouTube. I highly recommend him to every human because every humans have trauma. Your level of trauma is irrelevant in that everyone's had it and that it applies to everyone. Being birthed, coming through a vaginal canal or a C-section is trauma.

[00:38:18] So it's funny because I think the word trauma is really overused right now. But when I say that, what I mean is we are not perfect individuals. We all come from some form of dysfunction and it's okay that we do. But to get to know, okay, where are my weak points? Can I not ask for help? What's underneath that? Do I push too hard? Do I try to control everything so I feel like I'm not out of control? Where does that come from?

[00:38:46] How can I help that part of me to feel less vulnerable? Those are the questions that we want to ask. And I would also say, and where do I feel it when I become controlling? Or can I feel? Or do I go ice? Or do I see myself above my body? Those are really important questions to know the answer to so we can gently move towards offering a different choice.

[00:39:10] Because I think the most challenging thing for kids or parents in your state, Effie, is that they feel like there is no choice, which hence brings us back to victim. That's very real. And I'm here to invite you to be curious about, number one, your warrior. What does it look like? And sound like? Move like? And what are some choices for repair after warrior goes to battle? I'm kind of laughing inside my head because when you were talking about what you would

[00:39:39] have to give if someone gives to you and how it's, you know, it's exhausting to think about if there was a tit for tat sort of thing. I always like when anybody Southern would help me or do something nice for me, I was always like, oh, shit. I'm never sending them a thank you card and they're not going to want to be my friend anymore. But I physically literally cannot write a thank you card right now. And I know that I lost friends from that, I think, because you just feel so obligated

[00:40:08] and you can't, you're like paralyzed when you are in that mode of like despair. Yeah. But having silly thoughts that are actually kind of funny like that, like, oh no, it's a Southern person. I have to send a thank you card or I'm going to be the worst person in the world. Shout out to all my Southerners. But yeah, like thinking about having to give back by receiving is... So I would, there's a couple things.

[00:40:37] There's a, and I think her name's Jackie Larson. I use her, they're digital cards. They're beautiful. I use them all the time. There's an email card. Yeah, but you can't do that to Southerners. It has to be a handwritten note. Don't you know any of them? But that's the next part of my point. But that's the next part of my point because that's giving with conditions. That's giving with conditions. If someone gives and perhaps you know them to say, okay, Barbara, I want you to know I'm in a state of overwhelm.

[00:41:05] If you don't receive a card, are you going to be okay with my heartfelt thank you right now? Because it's okay to say that. Yeah. No, you're absolutely right. I know. And I am joking about it, you know, but... It's true, Effie. Yeah. And I would promise you if you have someone that's giving and you address that up front or even in a text to say I'm too overwhelmed to send you a card, please feel my thank you that that is enough. Please hear my sigh. That is enough.

[00:41:33] But that's communication. And that's what I'm talking about. Because we make so much stuff up in our head about what they'll think about me if I don't do blank, therefore I'm not going to ask. Therefore, I go down the path of no one ever helps me and what the fuck am I actually doing? Yeah. I think that the victim slash warrior archetype, I know what you're going to say, but I feel like it is probably the most important one to be aware of as a parent raising a kid like Ford.

[00:42:02] I would say today it is because the four archetypes, and let me just review, when one is activated, they're all activated. So if we have the victim being activated, let's bring in the others. We have the child. We have the prostitute. Reminding you, prostitute is like people pleaser. What can I do, give, be, have to be loved? And then we have the saboteur. Saboteur also comes in.

[00:42:28] So for example, the saboteur would come in when you say a southerner gives me food, and I know I'm going to feel guilty, so I'm not going to ask them. So you sabotage within that and then become victim to the sabotage. So all of the archetypes work together and they intermingle. It's important you get to know each one individually to recognize them. And when it comes up, you don't have to go through all of them, but it's noticing which one is activated.

[00:42:56] And can I make a different choice, however simple it can be in this moment? And that's the dance with the archetype because they don't go away. Please be really clear. They don't go away. They always exist. How do we move with them instead of being swallowed by them? The shadow side of victim terrifies me more, I think, than any other shadow side. Like the powerlessness, the self-blame, the stuckness especially. Stuckness.

[00:43:26] Yeah. I don't know. I really hate how I feel when I know that I'm really in that victim mode. I don't like anything about it. Okay. Let me ask you a question. So close your eyes for a second. Take a deep breath and just feel your butt in your chair. I remember when I was a kid and I felt powerless. How old was I the first time I remember feeling that way? First thing that comes to your head. Three. Three. That's tiny. So close your eyes again.

[00:43:56] We're not done. When I was three and I felt powerless, what need was not being met? Ask the three-year-old or see it in your mind's eye. What need was not being met? Attention. Attention. And how does a three-year-old feel not getting attention when she really, really needs it? Invisible. Invisible.

[00:44:17] Part of understanding that feeling that happens when, that probably happened many times of feeling invisible and not having your needs met and all the different things. What happens is when we're not aware of where that comes from, we go back to, because the body doesn't know time. We go back to the point in time of a three-year-old child archetype.

[00:44:51] And then we go back to the point in time. I can't do this. I can't do this. This isn't fair. And we travel back.

[00:45:17] We go back to the point in time. Let's go back to the point in time. Let's go back to the point in time.

[00:45:40] Let's go back to the point in time. Where's the thread? Where does it go back for you? I feel invisible. Child archetype. And when the child felt invisible, what did the child do? How did the child behave? She just got shit done and did it herself, right? And then we come back to victim archetype as the adult.

[00:46:10] I'll just take care of it. Get out of my way. That's real. It doesn't have to be that way. You can ask, hey, Casey, could you bring me a drink of water while I sit my butt on the couch and feel guilty? And I'm going to practice feeling guilty because it's okay that I feel guilty. Could you still bring me a glass of water? Right? You're flexing that muscle just like you flex your hamstrings and your balance in hot yoga. To ask for something, feel guilty, and receive it is the flexion of the muscle.

[00:46:38] I know we've talked about it in one of our past episodes. And I know it might sound weird to some of you, but you have to try it. You really have to. You have to try every single thing Christy's saying, but that one will really knock the wind out of you, to use a saying, when you first realize the power of doing that. In an instant, you're so much nicer to that person. Because you wouldn't yell at a child. You wouldn't tell a three-year-old what you would tell the adult in you,

[00:47:07] especially if you feel invisible. I have a picture of myself when I was little in my office. I have one in my bedroom very purposely to remind myself to be gentle with her when I feel overwhelmed, exhausted, frozen. And I have a person on my list that I know I can call and say, I'm not okay. And she'll sit there and she doesn't fix it. She just breathes with me until I quit crying. And then she breathes some more until I quit crying.

[00:47:35] And then we have a conversation about sometimes nothing. You only need one person. But healing happens together. It doesn't happen by ourselves. You have a whole community that you've created, Effie. And it can be done through text. It could be done through Marco. It doesn't have to be face-to-face. I'm not okay. Could you please hold this space with me? I got you, babe. Then you put on your warrior for your friend. But if we don't know where, what's stopping me from asking, please, and if you need a therapist to ask those questions, do.

[00:48:05] But get resource so you can know why you keep sabotaging help and then become victimized again. And I say that so gently because I don't want to put any blame or shame. It's just part of the system that's created within our own culture. Well, you just buck up and you do more. Stay busy. No, don't do that. Have a happy balance of staying busy and working hard and taking care of and doing you. So you don't have to disassociate.

[00:48:33] But those are hard questions because it takes you back to childhood. And it feels sad to be invisible. It feels sad to not have your needs met as a three-year-old. And that's only one event. But if we don't know where it comes from, we spin our wheels. And we continue to recreate the same fractal in our own systems, in our own families, in our own relationships, because we don't want to look at where the thread comes from. And I don't pretend to tell you it's easy. But being a parent of a disabled child isn't easy either.

[00:49:01] Remind yourself you can do hard things like feel. With someone, I wouldn't do that by yourself. Let me just be super clear. To have someone be with you in that feeling state so you don't drown is important. Support and resources matter. In that feeling state. Somatically, where does this archetype show up or how? It usually shows up in the belly. Because the belly is our identity. It's our fire center. It's our power center.

[00:49:31] And how it can show up. I would say the belly and the chest because the heart has to be open for courage. Because you're being vulnerable. Like she put on her boots and marched her ass into that school. Right? That takes courage and an opening of your field, your body. And so like some of the things that people might notice within the energy of the victim is digestive issues.

[00:49:58] Constipation, diarrhea, colitis, irritable bowel. All of those things of how we are digesting our life. There's not enough for me. Diabetes. Sweetness of life. I don't get that pleasure because blank. All of those things reside within the organ system in the body. Lungs would be grief of why did this happen to me? Why do I have a child with a disability? Very real. All of those are in that third chakra and heart space.

[00:50:27] And that's where warrior shows up. Because when you think of a warrior, they put their chest out, right? Come and get me. I dare you. And when you think of someone who's defeated, the chest goes in and the body slumps forward. And it becomes invisible. I can't do this anymore. And when you get to that point, please rest. Just like you said, there's people are saying, I can't fight anymore. Then I would suggest you please rest and find some resources that can help you rest before you burn out and you can't help anyone.

[00:50:56] And that's challenging because then it leads us back to, that's not who we are in our family. That's not what we do. And all of those beliefs that you can't ask for help because you are exhausted and depleted. Who told you that? And is it true? And that's delicate. I don't say that lightly. I'm all for new age foofa. And I also think that it can be super damaging because you can gaslight yourself because you just can't choose to let it go.

[00:51:23] And you create your own system of hell in your head because you can't let it go or all these things. So please be gentle with that. As you pull that little string and we look to the three-year-old, right, that just wanted some attention and to have our needs met. But the adults were too busy and distracted. That's real. That's parenting. And then I guess what happens, Effie, is we become our own adult. We become too distracted and too busy to not help ourselves.

[00:51:52] And then the cycle continues. Yeah. I mean, I think that a lot of people are going to be really interested in learning about these archetypes because I think it really can give you a practical way to think through a situation, even if you can't do it in the moment, but afterwards. I guess what is sort of a simple approach for families to digest a little bit more of this? I would keep it really simple, like almost as if it were a play, a theatrical event.

[00:52:22] So for a family, if the family needs to show up as warrior, what does the warrior feel like in your body? How does, because this is about embodiment, right? A warrior has to be in their body. What does it feel like? What does a warrior sound like? What are the resources a warrior has? They have a sword. They have a horse, perhaps. They have an army, perhaps. The more simple you can keep it, the better.

[00:52:49] And I know we talked about specific things in each podcast. We could, I think it might be a good idea to do one more podcast and go over the summary of each one and how, like even writing down the language of what a warrior says versus what a victim says. Yeah, that's a good idea. That's the easiest way that I've learned and continue to learn to notice when it gets activated and how to shift it back. And we can certainly do that and then even do a print off that they could have from your

[00:53:18] site. So it's on their fridge. But simplicity is best with this because you already have enough complicated things in your life. And embodiment is, I think, one of the most important things based on what you said at the very beginning, right? We disassociate, going to freeze. Over time, that is super dangerous. So instead of disassociating to come into embodiment, put your boots on, like the beautiful woman

[00:53:45] explained, put your boots on and show up and then repair after. That's super simple in a very complex situation. Is there a way that's simple for people to practice compassion? You know, I mean, you have terrible thoughts sometimes in this. You have terrible, what if I had done more thoughts? I mean, like all kinds of things like that. And I think those even, I guess, ruminating, right?

[00:54:13] Like you ruminate on things that you could have done differently or done better or did you do enough? Like all of those things. Like how do you catch that and tell yourself that you did do it and it's okay? Like how do you really put that in place? I think there's a... I don't think there's one answer to that. I think there's a few answers. And then my first thought goes to my friend Marty, who you've met.

[00:54:37] And we can do a podcast to have a script written specifically for some of those loops of the mind to help break them up because you have to interrupt the loop. Interruption of that loop could be tapping. It could be going to yoga. It could be calling a friend. It could be going on a walk, taking a cold bath or a hot bath.

[00:55:02] The main thing is to interrupt the loop so the loop doesn't grow and expand and take over. And then Effie, the other part that I would say is to look at that little child in you, the picture again, and to tell that little one, honey, I got you this time. I'm going to give you what you need because right now that's priority. There's many answers to that. And it needs to be what works best for each individual because everyone's so different

[00:55:32] and how they move out of that loop when they notice they're in it. Yeah, Marty's really good at the script. Actually, I'll have Christy's podcast linked in all of these episodes too. No one is perfect. You can get it everywhere podcasts are. But her partner, Marty, does something called tapping. You've probably seen, you know, silly videos of it or whatever. But she has a script of whatever topic they had on the show that day. And it is poetic. Like, I'm always like, how did Marty just like think of that stuff just right off of

[00:56:01] the top of her head? Like it's she digs really deep. And it's also just like the most simple language on planet Earth at the same time. And Marty would say with that, if people are feeling like overwhelmed to just tap and you can access, you know, we can certainly give you the tapping points. But even if you're just tapping your heart, that is a beginning to interrupt the loop because you're feeling the tapping. The most important thing is to acknowledge the feeling.

[00:56:29] The looping is what's happening in the mind to not feel. I feel sad. I feel we could even use the word victimized, right? We avoid those. And then the loop just keeps us from the feeling state. So more importantly is finding out like three or four different ways that help you come out of your loop and go into acknowledging what I'm feeling and making bridging statements.

[00:56:58] Even though I feel like I could have done more, I trust that I'm doing the very best I can today. Having only just one bridging statement is enough. The loop is wicked. And so there again, that's a resource, right? A victim needs a resource to go to warrior. And warrior is also using tapping or breath work or yoga or soundables to recoup what the war takes. And there's no simple answer. Sorry, I don't have a simple answer. I mean, it is simple.

[00:57:27] That is simple, right? Well, it's a paradox. Right. It's so simple, but when you're overwhelmed... But it's not easy. It's simple, not easy. Right. My favorite word is simplexity. And it isn't a word, but it is a word. Simplexity. And if you have a few things you can choose from, even two, that will matter when you get in that loop in your head. There's so many lessons.

[00:57:51] It's kind of fun to learn lessons still, even though they're usually pretty difficult and annoying. It is fun to kind of learn the lesson. And what do you think it does for the warrior Effie? Every time you learn a lesson, it creates what? Well, I mean, it prepares you for the next battle to be stronger and mightier. Yes. And it also keeps you grounded, right? Like it humbles you. Yes. That's exactly what it does.

[00:58:20] And you get up again. And you also rest again. You need as much rest from the battle as you do to be in the battle. Because I think what happens is it goes to the extreme and then the exhaustion hits. I'm tired of fighting and they die internally. That's when you know you need to ask someone to bring you dinner that doesn't require any thank you notes, but just to nod thank you and then close the door. Who are those people? Yeah.

[00:58:49] Whatever the lifeline is. Yeah. Could be Uber. I don't know. Yeah. It's best if you have at least one person that you could text a code word. Watermelon means I'm not okay. Could you please just say a prayer for me or send me a text of a warrior? Right. But to have those conversations before you fall into the pit of hell. Yep. And I think too, maybe another part of that episode is, again, just like not reimagining,

[00:59:18] but really going over what caring for yourself really looks like, you know, and how when you do it, you just get so much better at it. And it gets easier. You have less guilt. I think you also just like find so many new loves or hobbies and you forgot that you didn't have any or never thought you were good at something or whatever. Like I think the more that you do that, like the more curious in general you get about lots of different things. Yeah.

[00:59:48] And that expands your field, your consciousness, your body, your soul, because it's not just the one battle every single day. Because that's what creates the burnout is no variety or having your own needs met. And that could be yoga, art, music. Right. It's important for each one of us to know one or two things that help us feel like a human without responsibility. What is that? Yeah.

[01:00:17] Well, I could talk about this for a hundred years, obviously. And so could you. And you're so just wise and beautiful and wonderful. And I'm so grateful for you. And I appreciate how you help people think it through. It's a real gift. Well, I appreciate you having me on. I think we should do another podcast, though, of the summary of the four now that we've talked through the four and do bullet points that can be printed of how do I know when I'm in this one?

[01:00:44] And what are some things I can do or say to my brain to get out? Yeah. So we'll do that, Effie, and have those resources available for your people. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. So welcome. I hope you've been enjoying this podcast. If you like what you hear, please share this show with your people. And please make sure to rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also head over to Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter to connect with me and stay updated on the show.

[01:01:14] If you're interested in sharing your story, or if you have anything you would like to contribute, please submit it to my website at effieparks.com. Thank you so much for listening to the show and for supporting me along the way. I appreciate you all so much. I don't know what kind of day you're having, but if you need a little pick-me-up, Ford's got you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.