Can On Demand AI & VR Practice Help The Med Students Of The Future Be Better Caregivers - Oli Siska

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Ready.

Awesome. Hello and welcome to the Tech Glow Up. I'm Nathan C, and today I am talking with the co-founder and CEO of Kaleidoscope XR Oli Siska. Oli it's so great to talk with you today. Thanks for joining me.

Thank you for having me on the show.

Amazing. let's just jump right in and could you please introduce yourself and the work that you do in XR and innovation at Kaleidoscope XR?

Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Oli Siska and I'm the CEO Kaleidoscope XR builds applications. In VR, virtual reOlity, augmented reOlity, and artificial applications. We like to speciOlize in the medical field, but we build custom solutions in any area.

Awesome. Can you maybe use one of the projects that, you've built or one of the things that you've done in VR to, dive more about how you use VR technologies to help folks working in the healthcare and medical space.

Yeah, absolutely. So one of the solutions that we build is called caregiver VR, and it's a multi-user platform, so up to 20 students can go into a classroom. With an instructor where they're gonna be debriefed about best practices say on dementia. And so say responsive behaviors like today, we'll cover wandering and how do we deal with that particular issue? And then the instructor can assign roles. So they can assign a, caregiver and a resident, and then they would role play like a standardized patient scenario where the, the instructor is trying to, or the caregiver is trying to get a task accomplished, meanwhile, the resident is having issues with it. But one of the amazing things that VR does that you could not accomplish any other way is we are able to trigger symptoms of dementia, like auditory hallucinations and visual hallucinations. So while you're going through this exercise of trying to accomplish a task. The person who's playing the resident is the only one who can hear and see and have all the stimulation going on while they're trying to get through this, simulating what it might be like to have dementia.

Ah, I love that, and thank you for that explanation. I think it's really crucial. For both understanding the training and like why a VR training would be so much more impactful could be so much easier to develop that empathy with somebody experiencing dementia without actually having to experience or. Suffer from dementia. I, love that application as a way to use VR to like just to build empathy, to help see and understand a situation that normally you don't get to come back from typically. Gorgeous. You've also mentioned that you work on. Intelligent applications. I think I know what that means, but could you describe a little bit what you're doing in the realm of intelligence?

Absolutely another amazing tool out there right now. And most people are probably familiar with AI in terms of chat, GPT. They're using it in their every day. And a couple of years ago it was a scary space and now everybody has seen, wow, this can really streamline my work. So we have built an application called osci AI Pro, and that stands for objective structured tests that doctors, nurses, anybody, any medical professional going into the field have to take. It's a practical Exam. Exam and the way it works it's very expensive to administer. You have a doctor behind a one way mirror. You have to hire an actor to play the patient. You gotta train them, and then the medical student goes in, has 10 minutes to diagnose, have a conversation, deal with that patient, then they go to the next station, very. Very expensive, hard to administer. So most universities provide one to two opportunities a year for a student to practice this, which is scary because we should really give our. Future doctors, the most opportunities we can. So we came up with an AI tool where you can go in, you select a case, say you know, you wanna do a patient shows up with chest pain and then you proceed to have a conversation. The AI speaks back to you avatar patient, and you have a conversation trying to do the same thing, diagnose management plan, whatever specific to that case that is highlighted as in this is what you're trying to do. So it gives them the opportunity to practice 24 7 anytime, anywhere, and get more of that more of that contact conversational contact.

Is this like a downloadable app? Is it a web VR? How what's the how do people engage and use it?

So it is a web platform. It works on any device.'cause it's a web platform, so you could do it on your phone, on the computer. You don't have to download anything. You log in and pick your case and then you go very, simple.

Amazing. Really taking this like very crucial knowledge set these, diagnostic skills that any future practitioner is going to need to have and taking a lot of that pressure off by allowing them to practice to revisit cases. To engage in a, it sounds in a similar format as that actual test would be without having to wait six months or a year to get access to the content. Amazing. And, are these at, what level is this, like clinical education? Is this for like pre-med? Is this doctors? Where is that

So

Situated?

for all levels. Pre-med cases and then there's specialty cases as well. So if you are already in your specialty, you're a doctor and now you're going into a residency for a specific specialty, you can find cases on that as well.

Again, so we can get a new session started. That'll pop up here in a second. We're rolling. All right. Okay. Alright, Ollie VR. Role playing and AI medical education are relatively new kinds of fields and applications. What got you started exploring these kind of high tech ways to connect and communicate what's, your origin as a, as an innovation founder?

Pure accident, how some things in life go? So I was working in the nonprofit sector and had. Spend about 25 years there. And I put it out there to the universe that I was looking to do something else, that I needed a change in my life. And I came across a VR headset and a company, and we were talking about a project and I thought, what is this? day I put on that headset changed my life. I thought that. I, could see the practical applications. I could see how much social good it could do. I could see the potential for empathy, and that was it. There was, just no stopping me at that point. This is what I wanted to do.

Ah. That's a big jump. This is totally a sidebar question so you can pass if you'd like to moving from nonprofits and very mission based work into working with deep technologies. Was there any learning curve or adjustment period in just like how to get things done or your role as a as a founder? I'm curious how, was that like transitioning between those two worlds?

Yeah, I would say there was a lot of transferable skills, but there was also a big learning curve. On how the technology responds, what are the limitations, how, what are the exciting things it can do? And so that was really big. And the the, funniest part of it is I first went and I got a job in a VR company because I thought you don't just go open a company when you don't know what you're talking about. So got a job in a VR company and a week into the job, we all got sent home because COVID started. So here I am, I need the training. I need to know what's going on, and I get isolated at home with, without the knowledge base. So I had to get very clever and get schooled really, fast. Just into what is going on? How does this work?

The that is very much like the classic VR hero's journey and like that moment of inspiration, that aha and then that immediate trough of disillusion meant about.

Yeah.

Where do you know where is this integrated? Who's got a headset? How do we. Use it, but what a, fantastic place and organization to really start to understand how you could apply VR technology for training, for education, for remote collaboration. It sounds like you might have had to. For lack of eat your own sandwich a little bit really learn by doing and making which is always powerful.

Absolutely. And I think that's what made the transition. Easier because anything I do in life has to have some social good in it. That's what attracted me to nonprofit to begin with, and seeing that potential in the VR technology, it was like, Hey, I can still continue the mission work. I can still make sure that, there are positive things happening in the world. I'm just choosing a different vehicle. From being in a nonprofit, I'm just choosing a different tool to express that, and now I'm actually able to reach way more people.

Okay, let's talk with that.'cause I don't know that this idea that hey, using deep technology, using face wor computers, VR I don't know that everyone out there, I guess if you're listening to the tech Glow Up, you might be, but would necessarily agree that like a new technology is an easy way to reach more people. How do you use VR to like, reach people and then maybe even more importantly, like how do you learn, understand, and measure that impact? That was so important to you when you're in these new realms. Maybe sometimes making a first of its kind experience or application.

Yeah, so the the caregiver VR that I mentioned before actually came, the concept came out of COVID because there was a lot of long-term care industries. That needed to train people and they had a trainer running from one location to the other location, to the other location, and it's, again, not very cost effective. So now what we can do is we can put'em in a headset with a simple technology. We can put'em in a headset, they can be anywhere in the world, so their trainees can be at three different locations. They put'em together. So in terms of being able to expand your outreach it's really. Big. In terms of going to osci AI Pro, it's available on any device so anybody can participate. And again, you can be anywhere in the world. So if you are potentially you in the Philippines, you are looking to be a nurse in Canada, you can start training.

I love that. Yeah. A technology that takes away like the barriers of time and space that allows a very experienced, I. I had a friend who was an executive trainer and she spent like 200 days a year traveling to all of these different offices and Right. And to give that busy executive a few days of her time traveling back could be substantial. So empower those really vital players on your team to reach more people quicker with fewer barriers. Love it. Did when you're introducing VR to people, asking people to move into a new modOlity for training or learning or collaborating were there any like surprising resistance to the tech or surprising, like rapid excitement about it as you rolled out and tested with your clients?

I would say there's both elements are there. In terms of excitement, I. Absolutely love, and it's one of my favorite things to do takes to take somebody who's never experienced VR and to put'em in a headset for the first time because all you hear is, oh, wow. And then you tell'em to look around. You've got a 360 view, don't look forward. And then they start looking around the room and they're like. I am in a room. This is, it's absolute magic. resistance happens usually from people who haven't tried it. So they, really cannot visuOlize what the potential of this is. And it's, that visuOlization that is really difficult to convey until you've tried it there's resistance on the this is how we do it. This is how we've always done it, and it's the same old story. This is how we've always done it. So we don't really wanna try something new. But once somebody goes in that headset the, aha moment happens.

Yep. You, gotta try it. Seeing is believe in and, Right, like you mentioned at the beginning, so often like one of the things that I think hooks people. When you get into this space is like when you see somebody reOli like almost in real time see the matrix like washing over them and all of the ideas that gets you going. I even just thinking about it, it lit me up a little bit. I love it. Oli as a founder, especially as one working in the edges of technology I'd love to hear how you like to learn about and adapt and respond to opportunities both with your customers and your market. How do you make sure that you're building the right thing for the right people?

Yeah, so we, when we worked on Os CE or we worked on caregiver, we work with subject matter experts. So it's actually all the, content is coming from the. Experts, they're telling us what they need. We are not going out there and telling them what they need. And I think that's the number one mistake any company can make. They think they have a brilliant idea. We all do it personally if there only was an app for this and then if we build it, everybody would want it. Until you do your market research and until you talk to the. Content creators, the industry itself, they'll tell you what you need. You don't need to guess at it. And in order to stay ahead the company's job or, my job is to find out what's the capability of the tools because we are just a means to get their message out. We are not the message, we're the tools, but I have to understand. How far can we push the tool? Can it do what you're visuOlizing? How difficult is it gonna be? Is it gonna be costly or is this a simple thing? So that's where I am constantly trying new tools. I'm constantly trying to break them to see how far they can go. And so I am the hammer of the AI and and so you gotta do that. And the other source is employees. Have those conversations. What are you doing? What are you doing personally? What are you playing with? What do you see? And really listen to those messages because you can't be everywhere at once as one person. But when you put a collective brain together, all of a sudden you know what limitations you can push on that tool and how you can build things better.

So you, brought up this topic that like anybody who spent time building in XR or like working with a client on a cutting edge project is bound to encounter, right? Step one, inspire them with the possibilities of the new technology. Step two, vOlidate what is actually possible.

Yes.

Step three. Get that client to agree or right to see the value of the V one. You know that today's technology is going to allow, I'm curious how do you, approach those conversations? How do you not overwhelm. A client a, stakeholder, while also setting real expectations around capabilities and budgets.

Yeah, and ultimately a company, really the first question they have is ROI return on investment. This is gonna cost me money upfront. What am I gonna get back? Fortunately. is a tool, especially when applied to training that actually saves people a lot of money. It standardizes their training, so there's not two sets of information going out there, and it allows you to do it anytime. So you don't have to wait for a cohort of 20 people. If it's a single user experience, you can just say Walmart's doing it right now. They have a VR training that they have invested in, and they just somebody goes to apply to be a new customer service rep. Here's the headset, go in the back, we'll see you in three hours and they can do it anytime. They don't have to have a cohort anymore where you're missing three people and everybody shows up at 10 0 5 instead of 10. And so it, it really streamlines it. So I think the numbers really help. And I think the other thing, the trick of that conversation is really getting'em to experience it. Because again until you get that experience they're not necessarily understanding how powerful of a tool that is and that your employee's gonna retain seven times more information in a VR headset than they are if you're just talking at them.

Ooh. Love the stat. Thanks for that. You, like I was starting in the background, right? To think around. This idea of there's a kitchen sink tendency with building like a new VR app. Oh we're gonna throw in everything, including the kitchen sink. What if the kitchen sink was you could move the handles and there was water, and you're like, but we're in a medical training folks, right? And this idea that you're retaining seven times more information, right? Doesn't necessarily mean that you need to put. Seven times more information into the experience in order for it to be educational. But that the focus and the agency and the clarity that you're giving them in the tool, allows you to kind of do less but with way more focus the, you called out three things on the value of a VR training that I, I think any stakeholder would absolutely adore. The first one is access. Anybody every time, any time. The second is consistency, right? Like you get that control over the content, you get that same presentation. It's way easier to have a computer do the same simulation or an AI chat do a simulation over and over again than it is your seatmate. And that. The third one, I absolutely lost access. Consistency, access control. Oh my gosh. We're gonna have to cut that part out. I just I was diving in, I was trying to tag something and I, lost my thread. I think we'll just cut that part. I Oli, this is my. Favorite part of the tech Glow Up, right? The show really is, built around this idea of. Great ideas happen because you have bold plans. The show is called the Tech Glow Up. A Glow Up is a a notable transformation or a rebirth. I use it to talk about goals. What's the, Glow Up that you're looking to make for Kaleidoscope XR and OSCI AI Pro.

Yeah. So we're we're, we noticed, so again your, customer base will let you know where you should go, and your subject matter experts will let you know where to go. And osci AI Pro has started as a medical training tool, but where we found another gap was in the long term care industry. So all the frontline healthcare aides that don't have access to, enough training, again, they're getting into say, dementia and responsive behaviors and they can get themselves into trouble without that proper training. what we started to do is putting cases in that are not necessarily for the doctor, but that are also for the healthcare aid. And how do I deal, how do I deal with a person that is. Having a moment today, right? And needs that extra help. So what I would love to see is, that tool starting to really take off this year, and especially in that industry, we have some legislation changes that are coming up in February. That's going to regulate healthcare aids. And so now we're to certifications and we're onto a whole new ball game. So I would love to be able to help that industry have better. Trained workers and I would, that leads to worker satisfaction. The more they control they have over their day the better it is for everyone. And so because those resources are so limited, I would love to see an uptake of that to actually change patient care In the end.

In that long term space is so crucial, right? Those, are folks who don't have time, they don't have resources. And it's people's parents and grandparents and. Folks you wanna take care of. Oh, I love it. Always with a mission. I so adore it. Thank you for that. Similar, Ollie, getting into the problem space of being a founder, being a an innovator. If you had a magic wand that you could wave to remove one blocker that's in the way of your team and this Glow Up what would you wave your magic wand and and fix tomorrow?

I think it's it's the general fear people have over new technologies. And it's any new technology that comes along, Just a few ago, computers were a new thing and it was gonna be the thing that blows everybody up and it, was dangerous. And where's this going? And now we can't, if you don't have a computer, you're not participating in society. That's how ingrained it is. And so if there's one thing that I could. Remove Yep. Cell phones as well. It's, crazy how fast this stuff moves. And so if there's one thing I could remove, it would be that fear do, not be afraid. Do not be afraid. We're absolutely going through a technology revolution, but try and find the excitement of that and don't hone into one little piece. Try and explore it. If you're into music, there are music ais. If you are into video, there are video ais. There's, just play with it. Play with it.

Yeah. Gotta in that. World where you gotta see it to believe it. Wouldn't it be nice if everybody had already seen or had that aha moment? I love it. Oli. I, know from talking to hundreds of CEOs and go to market leaders that the, impact of a mentor, a coach, even sometimes like a friend or family member who sees your vision and says, I believe you. Keep going can just be transformational in the journey of a company and a new technology. How have how have your mentors, coaches and guides helped you on the way to where you are today?

They have been fundamental not just in terms of helping me figure out company things, but in personal growth. They have been they, and they, in fact I belong to a mentorship group through an organization called VMSA and we meet about once a month and I set the agenda and that's what they really help me. It's not about let us help you market this product. It's about you as a leader. do you wanna talk about? What do you wanna work on? And to me, ultimately it starts right there. Like we can talk about marketing a product till the cows come home. But if you don't have the right leadership in mind, if you don't have the right vision, if you don't have the proper self-reflection, you're probably gonna fall flat.

I'm not gonna dare tag that and risk meshing up that eloquent point. Thank you so much, Oli. I can't believe it, but we're, we've made it to the speed round. Are you ready?

Yeah,

Awesome. If there's one takeaway that you want our listeners to walk away from this conversation with in one sentence, what is it?

try it.

Two words. Two words. I love it. Okay. I'm also a little bit of a sidebar. I'm a bit of a nerd about strategic planning, so I'm curious where, just at the beginning of January. 26. Where is your strategic brain? Where are you thinking and scheming and planning?

Yeah, we're we're thinking quarters and quarters ahead, so I'm already thinking into the fall. We have a, strategic roadmap to the product, to the company, and really have to be thinking quite forward of, okay, so these are the next 10 things we gotta accomplish till the fall. But then what are we doing after That And in this industry? When you're building products, you absolutely have to think ahead because by the time you build something, the technology has already changed. It's moving so fast that you better be looking to see what's coming next and how you can improve it, and so that you build your product in an open way so that you don't get caught with your pants down six months from now going this no longer works because we built ourselves into a corner.

That advice is golden, right? Don't build a nine month partnership, build a new tools and launch in new things, right? If those partners only have six months of budget there's, so much out there. You gotta be ready for the future. But also I, love that that kind of indicates ship more, learn faster, adapt quicker, right? Rather than perfect. We are no longer in the age of sitting in our offices perfecting the software for the yearly launch, right? We gotta be out there reacting and learning in real time.

Absolutely future proofing. Future proofing is what it's about.

Yep. Totally optional, but I have enjoyed asking people if they have a spicy soundbite to share on tech culture innovation or otherwise. Do you have a spicy hot take?

I think one of the most exciting things that happened just tail end of last year is people are probably familiar with a program called soa, which is an AI program, and it generates video. This is scary for a lot of people because now you can, take? an avatar of yourself and put it in. Sora two is now in in beta, and so I was able to get my hands on. A copy and it is phenomenal how much that technology is coming along. Video is lagging behind everything else because it's usually a frame by frame analysis, and that is, if you can imagine, that's really processing heavy. So most of us don't have the equipment at home to handle anything beyond 10, 15 seconds of a generation. But when you look at the potential of that, you can see that maybe. 10 years from now and maybe quicker, you'll have enough processing power and the technology's gonna be there where you're gonna be able to make a movie by yourself in the basement. And that opens things up for all kinds of artists, sort of likem. Spotify has opened up music and other things. Now you're gonna be able to generate. A whole movie, write your own script. No more Hollywood. And here we go. I can now be an independent filmmaker. So that's really exciting exciting to watch that development. And I, know again, there's a lot of fear about fake news about fakes out there, but you know what, that's why we have AI to detect the fakes.

I love it. Soon we'll all be cinematic movie prompters. I love it. Ollie last one is pretty simple. How can people follow up and learn more?

Yeah,

I.

So you can find us at kaleidoscope XR dot ca or you can email us at info at kaleidoscope XR dot ca.

Amazing. Oli Siska, co-founder and CEO of Kaleidoscope XR. Really a mission driven founder who's. Driven to make an impact in the lives of people who need support, whether that's caregivers for people suffering from dementia, or the future of our healthcare professionals who need better. Access to great training and practice with some of the most important skills out there. Oli, your enthusiastic creative and ROI focused love of these tools is absolutely catching and I can't wait to see what you do next at Kaleidoscope XR. Thanks for joining me on the Tech Glow Up.

Thank you very much for having me and it's been great.