HIMSS Europe 2024: EHDS, future of interoperability, next steps in AI, and where patient journey fits in?

[00:00:01] Dear listeners, welcome to Faces of Digital Health, a podcast about digital health and how

[00:00:07] healthcare systems around the world adopt technology with me, Tjasa Zajc.

[00:00:19] Rome was buzzing with digital health at the end of May as the Hymns Europe Conference took

[00:00:24] place at La Nuova Congress Center.

[00:00:28] Delegates from over 80 countries and representatives of health ministries of 20 countries marked

[00:00:35] the event with discussions about the implementation of the European Health Data Space, the impact

[00:00:41] of the UAI Act on Healthcare, Cyber Security, Patient Perspective and much more.

[00:00:49] I asked a few participants about their impressions from the discussions at the conference and

[00:00:54] the current state of healthcare digitalization in Europe.

[00:00:58] You will hear from Jordi Piera Jiménez, Director of the Digital Health Strategy Office at the

[00:01:05] Catalan Health Service who shared his view and experience on data management and data standards.

[00:01:12] Rachel Dunskamp, CEO of Open Air Foundation and former UK AI Council member leading

[00:01:19] on AI in digital health and care who presented the discussions on AI.

[00:01:25] Suava Maria Atladutir, Executive Director of Development at Lanspitali National University

[00:01:33] Hospital in Iceland about what it takes to build a new hospital which is what she needs

[00:01:39] to do by 2030.

[00:01:42] I also spoke with Nana Odom, Director of Clinical Engineering at the Cleveland Clinic

[00:01:47] in London who shared her advice for clinical engineers.

[00:01:52] Diana Vanstein, Chief Medical Officer and Co-Founder of Lab C Health and resident of Pediatrics

[00:01:58] at the University Medical Center in Amsterdam talked about the doctor's perspective on

[00:02:03] the use of tech and upskilling.

[00:02:06] And Luke Evason, Consultant and Monica Klein Evason, Leadership Coach and Book Author

[00:02:13] both talked about the patient perspective on gaps in healthcare particularly at

[00:02:18] the transfer of children going from pediatric to adult care.

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[00:02:56] Now let's dive in.

[00:03:13] Let's start with the data.

[00:03:15] This is Jordi Piera Jiménez about healthcare data quality and EHDS discussions at HIMS

[00:03:21] Europe.

[00:03:22] That EHDS is a hot topic nowadays and everyone is talking about it.

[00:03:27] It has raised a lot of attention from everyone.

[00:03:30] So I've been hearing a lot about basically about the regulation itself and a lot of discussions

[00:03:37] obviously about primary and secondary use, a lot of concerns about the European regulation

[00:03:44] versus the local regulations and how this regulation is going to be adapted in the

[00:03:50] local frameworks and how this will clash.

[00:03:53] A lot of discussion on the quality of the data that we will be end up sending

[00:03:58] in there.

[00:04:00] There has been a lot of work done up to the date with the European Electronic Health

[00:04:04] Record Exchange format and some other standards which promote I would say the exchange of

[00:04:10] PDFs translated into English language as a starting point for the European health

[00:04:18] data space.

[00:04:19] I truly believe that in the 21st century, be talking about exchanging PDFs translated

[00:04:25] into English language can be a very starting point but that the European citizens deserve

[00:04:31] more.

[00:04:32] So I think we need to be very conscious about this.

[00:04:34] We need to influence throughout all the coordination and superactions and all the projects that

[00:04:39] are being built around the EHDS on the set of standards that we will use to represent

[00:04:45] or to bring in the clinical knowledge within the technical landscape and other industries

[00:04:51] have managed to do such.

[00:04:53] Marketing has managed to define their business concepts and then we can go with our credit

[00:04:59] card and get money everywhere.

[00:05:01] Global distribution systems, ticket, plane bookings, hotel bookings all these industries

[00:05:07] have managed to agree on their business concepts.

[00:05:10] Let's put some effort in agreeing in healthcare once and for all on how to represent those

[00:05:16] for the good of everyone because if we agree afterwards the interoperability that we

[00:05:21] have is patchy and not the one that we desire.

[00:05:26] Given that the current plan as you mentioned is to start with the translation of PDFs,

[00:05:32] where do you see the role of generative AI in basically helping with structuring data

[00:05:36] and coding data?

[00:05:38] This has also been another topic of the conference as everyone can imagine that generative

[00:05:44] AI now you can find it in your soup and in your breakfast and everywhere and

[00:05:49] yeah I think it's a good option trying to solve all the mess of information that we have right

[00:05:55] now.

[00:05:56] This idea of everyone storing data in their own format and then mapping it to whatever

[00:06:02] other format, it's an effort that is very costly.

[00:06:07] It requires a lot of I would say human power and I think that generative AI can be a

[00:06:12] way to ease this issue and to facilitate the task of conversion but again I think

[00:06:19] that we should put efforts in rebuilding the foundations of our information structure

[00:06:25] but they call the infrastructure and rebuild our information systems in healthcare around

[00:06:32] this idea of stronger and further normalized information models.

[00:06:38] I think if I asked you this five years ago you would probably say the same that

[00:06:43] we need to have structured data and finally define and be ambitious around that.

[00:06:48] So what needs to change in order to get these consensus and clearly defined data models?

[00:06:55] Things are happening right now and up to the moment we have followed the pragmatic

[00:06:59] approach and we have had different systems, we have had very powerful vendors behind

[00:07:05] these systems and they have fostered these systems to communicate in between each other

[00:07:11] by defining a messaging system and that's mainly what you will find in the HL7 standards.

[00:07:18] This means that we agree outside of the systems at origin, we agree in between system A and

[00:07:24] system B they want to speak in between each other, we have a messaging system in between

[00:07:29] and then system A maps its information into the messaging system B maps its information

[00:07:36] into the messaging system and then communication can happen.

[00:07:40] This is built on the principle that we need to adapt this messaging system to the

[00:07:45] dumbest of system A and system B because if we adapt to the smartest one, the one that

[00:07:52] can speak the most granular level of conversation, the other one will never understand

[00:07:57] and that has been the pragmatic approach that has been working over the last years.

[00:08:02] Now healthcare systems have been maturing and we the ones who have been using

[00:08:07] this interoperability see the value of it but also see the limitations that it

[00:08:12] has and the effort that it takes us to do all these mappings.

[00:08:16] We are in a I would say in a very key moment, historical moment because it's coincidental

[00:08:23] the big amount of funds that are available in Europe thanks to the next generation funds

[00:08:27] the obsolescence of the systems because the systems that 30 years ago started with

[00:08:33] the digitalization are starting to become obsolete so we need to rethink them

[00:08:38] we need to design new ones, we need to procure new ones so when we are going to procure them

[00:08:43] please let's first agree on how to represent this clinical knowledge within the technical

[00:08:48] landscape and for this there are approaches and methodological approaches

[00:08:53] and technologies that facilitate this and one example as you know very well

[00:08:57] that I'm involved in this is all the work that has been done in the past 20 years

[00:09:01] with OpenAir and how OpenAir and HL7 standards can work together towards easing

[00:09:08] this issue of the interoperability we have a recent speech from Greyhound Griff

[00:09:13] in the OpenAir Masterclass in which we was stating one thing that for me was

[00:09:18] amazing he said interoperability is a bad thing in general the earlier we

[00:09:25] can agree the better let's try to agree as soon as possible obviously patch

[00:09:30] interoperability is not going but let's collaborate in between the two standards

[00:09:34] and that's what I am asking for further collaboration in between the two

[00:09:38] communities for the good of everyone one topic that's also quite important or

[00:09:44] popular is what's going to happen with all the data that's going to be

[00:09:49] gathered with EHDS for additional research so secondary use of data and

[00:09:54] you also mentioned a project that's been happening in Catalonia since

[00:09:59] 2016 focused on data altruism can you explain a little bit more about that

[00:10:05] where is the project now so eight years later and where do you see the role of

[00:10:11] data altruism in the evolving landscape in Europe

[00:10:16] data altruism is a concept that is often overseen it's a way to give the

[00:10:20] citizens who are in Europe at least in Europe the owners of the of their

[00:10:25] health data the power to do with this data whatever they want to and this is a

[00:10:30] very good option in research but also for education another secondary

[00:10:37] in Catalonia we understood that back in year 2016 as you were mentioning and

[00:10:45] we fostered the creation of a data cooperative enabling citizens to

[00:10:50] give for free their information in there with the condition that this

[00:10:55] information would be used to the public good research studies transparent

[00:11:00] research studies done with this data and then all the time being really

[00:11:04] transparent with the outcomes of these research studies and retrofitting to

[00:11:09] the citizens in a way that they understand this it took us four years

[00:11:14] to figure out how to do this legally so the legal framework and to work it

[00:11:17] out and in year 2000 we were ready to start dumping information in there then

[00:11:23] the pandemic came and we had to focus our attention into something else but

[00:11:27] in year 2022 we start developing the use cases on top of the on this data

[00:11:33] donation and we also enabled our citizens to download this information

[00:11:38] directly from our personal health folder so our personal health folder

[00:11:43] really greatly exploded its usage within the pandemic out of the 8 million

[00:11:49] Catalonian citizens we have 6 million citizens registered in the platform

[00:11:54] who are now actively using it they can renew their prescriptions they can

[00:11:59] renew their sick leave they can do a lot of administrative stuff in there and

[00:12:04] avoid a lot of visits to primary care to specialised care right now we

[00:12:08] have had more than 500,000 downloads so half a million downloads of this

[00:12:13] information dump so to say and at least 400,000 patients have donated

[00:12:19] this data to the data cooperative we have I think it's now six research

[00:12:24] studies running on top of this data in parallel and I think that when

[00:12:30] we have more data in there I think that we will continue to get more

[00:12:33] research studies and possibly freeing up some data sets also for education

[00:12:38] because I think education is really important we are training a lot of data

[00:12:42] scientists we're training a lot of statisticians bioengineers and

[00:12:48] obviously the usage of real-world data would be very good for their training

[00:12:54] do you see this as the kind of a small scale example of what the

[00:13:00] European health data space could be? Yes it's another of the phases of the

[00:13:05] European health data space so I think the European health data space has

[00:13:10] the phase that we are seeing right now it's very institutional

[00:13:14] it's a government-leaded you have the nodes we need to ensure privacy and

[00:13:18] security it's highly regulated the primary use the secondary use

[00:13:23] we want to do monetisation of this data and this is very formal

[00:13:28] and it's necessary obviously but then we have this other phase of the same coin

[00:13:33] which is a phase in which a bit like citizen science citizens take

[00:13:38] the lead and decide that they want to donate their data to one of these data

[00:13:42] intermediaries as it's proposed by the data governance act let's foster the

[00:13:48] generation of these data intermediaries that are trying to do good things with

[00:13:53] data so really take as much as possible from this data with the objective to at the

[00:13:58] end live a better world than the one we have now

[00:14:02] Data quality is key for quality AI another big topic globally with regulation outlined in Europe

[00:14:09] with the EU AI Act where are discussions in healthcare? Discussions resolve around

[00:14:15] implementation and technical questions this is Rachel Dunscomb

[00:14:20] we're now talking about the AI Act how that's going to play out for AI in Europe

[00:14:24] but also the real practicalities we're actually talking about a sort of legal side of things

[00:14:30] how we're going to get indemnity insurance against this corporate indemnity because

[00:14:34] there are many clinicians taking individual risk at the moment by using AI

[00:14:39] we're also talking about sandboxes so both Europe the UK have got sandboxes so for me

[00:14:44] it's been super interesting discussion because there's been practitioners

[00:14:47] there's been lawyers there's been policymakers and having everyone in the room

[00:14:51] and having that oversight of where the EU AI act is in terms of healthcare

[00:14:56] where it's going and what that practically means has been really interesting

[00:15:00] Where do you anticipate most challenges especially with the rapid development of

[00:15:04] technology and also from the industry perspective many say that they shouldn't even bother with

[00:15:08] the EU Act till 2026 because it's not going to be enforced until then so where do you stand

[00:15:14] on those topics and what do you hear from others

[00:15:17] So we certainly need some rules to the road right because we cannot let AI just happen unregulated

[00:15:23] but I think what's really practical is we're taking steps to learn and we're taking steps

[00:15:27] to actually change policy and we had a really good debate about do we need to change how we

[00:15:31] create policy for this and do we need the cadence to be faster do we need to be able to

[00:15:36] iterate if we get another thing that happens like generative AI how will we react

[00:15:41] so there are some really good discussions about changing policy cadence

[00:15:45] Do you have any specific concerns when it comes to AI and policy and how it's developing in Europe

[00:15:50] compared to other markets? There is a chance that the AI Act could slow us down yeah but we do

[00:15:57] need regulation and there's a balance there's a tightrope and we had some really good debates

[00:16:01] about how you want that tightrope of balancing risk and opportunity because too slow that's not

[00:16:07] going to help us too fast could be dangerous so how do you do that so yes I am concerned but equally

[00:16:13] I think we're having that debate now which is really healthy So who seems to be the most

[00:16:19] skeptical stakeholder at the moment and also in the best case scenario where do you think we

[00:16:25] could be in two years? That's interesting I'm not sure where we're going to be in two years

[00:16:30] and I do hope that we're adopting more AI to save lives and improve lives

[00:16:34] The key stakeholders at the moment I think really are governments because each government is going to

[00:16:39] have to set up a sandbox in Europe so that they can work through what this means for them and their

[00:16:44] country and so I think each of the national governments the key stakeholders now in Europe

[00:16:49] But if each country is going to have their own sandbox what's that going to mean for solution

[00:16:54] providers how do you see that's going to hinder scaling? Obviously the European Union will

[00:16:59] join across and there will be an ability to actually deploy across multiple sandboxes

[00:17:04] Yes we do need to make sure that we've got that joined up but I'm very hopeful from what I've seen

[00:17:09] from the team in the EU that they are considering all of these things but it's going to be an

[00:17:14] interesting journey In two years time I don't know where we'll be but I do hope we've got some more AI

[00:17:19] that is actually doing great work for us and helping us improve efficiencies

[00:17:23] I think we start at that end we start at the non-clinical end

[00:17:27] and make sure that we're driving out the work that humans shouldn't do in health systems

[00:17:30] but as we get towards the more clinical we've learned from the simpler pieces around automation

[00:17:36] and so that kind of spectrum is another theme and so I'm hoping we see more of that sort of

[00:17:42] automation around the back office The potential of data is huge if the data is of good quality

[00:17:49] This doesn't only refer to clinical notes, doctors input in electronic health records

[00:17:55] but also how other data from devices laboratories and more flow into the electronic health record

[00:18:03] Oftentimes hospitals still battle with the lack of interoperability among systems

[00:18:09] and manual transcription from one software to another or from devices for vital signs

[00:18:15] infusion pumps etc to clinical systems This creates opportunities for errors

[00:18:22] At the same time hospitals that have all of the systems connected need to be mindful of other challenges

[00:18:29] Cyber security went well beyond teaching employees to spot phishing emails

[00:18:35] Now third-party devices can pose a cyber security risk creating a whole new set of challenges and requirements

[00:18:42] So Nana Odom focused on the security aspect in healthcare technology at HIMS

[00:18:49] Obviously HIMS is a very impressive event and an opportunity to network with

[00:18:56] leaders within this industry and also to hear about new acts that are coming out

[00:19:05] I would say that attending HIMS it just reminds me that to be able to continue to drive innovation

[00:19:12] and to also maintain patient safety there should be a continuous balance between collaboration,

[00:19:21] education, awareness creation and security and privacy and that would continue to help us drive

[00:19:29] this tech but also thinking about technology adoption as we put this in place

[00:19:35] You are the head of clinical engineering at the Cleveland Clinic in London

[00:19:39] which achieved stage six in the digital maturity according to EMREM

[00:19:44] So all the devices that you use are connected and data flows seamlessly in your EHR

[00:19:50] What would your advice be to others that are striving to connect medical devices

[00:19:56] with their software solutions? The first advice that our give us always consider a

[00:20:04] standardized approach reduce the number of interfaces and middlewares as much as possible

[00:20:12] but also the design should be collaborative and ensure that you have all the stakeholders, clinical,

[00:20:20] technical, infrastructure, all stakeholders that you can think about involve them in the

[00:20:28] design from the start involve them in the testing and then also support them as the technology goes

[00:20:37] in and I would say that would really help with technology adoption and all of these does not

[00:20:44] stop there especially as a clinical engineer being part of the initial process of requirements

[00:20:51] gathering and design means that I can understand the IT language and also as a front-line

[00:20:58] worker also and working on the shop floor I have an understanding of the clinical side

[00:21:03] so my ability to bridge the clinical and IT helps me to manage these technologies a bit more

[00:21:13] effectively especially because it's it's understanding what the clinical workflow is

[00:21:19] and how that is used within the environment and the environments would include the equipment

[00:21:25] that we have in there Speaking of advice on how to do things can you imagine

[00:21:32] having all the freedom to design a new hospital free from legacy systems with the latest technology

[00:21:40] it's a big endeavor especially since one needs to think beyond the current models of care

[00:21:45] delivery but about the paradigm shift of a different healthcare delivery with a different focus and

[00:21:53] population needs that are going to be there in 10 years this is what swawa maria at la dotir

[00:22:00] thinks about on a daily basis since she's designing a new hospital in iceland with a population of

[00:22:07] 400 000 people I'm swawa i'm the chief transformation officer at lambspitale university

[00:22:16] hospital which is the largest national hospital in the country and we are building a new hospital as

[00:22:21] you mentioned so we will be moving in there in 2030 that means that we have a very ambitious

[00:22:26] five-year timeline to complete our digital transformation execute our data strategy and

[00:22:31] ensure that we are improving the patient experience the key takeaways coming to him's number one

[00:22:37] is that it's really reassuring to come and to see that we are actually headed in the same

[00:22:43] direction especially as the nordics and moving at a good pace so that's really important to know

[00:22:48] that that we are aligned the other thing that has been exciting to see is if I compared to a year ago

[00:22:55] we AI for example was something that was new unknown a little bit scary a wow factor and

[00:23:01] to see how many organizations hospitals have actually started to integrate this now it's

[00:23:06] been reassuring to see that this is something that we can get started on as well fairly soon

[00:23:11] so you are operating an existing hospital and building a new one how do these two processes

[00:23:18] go together and how are you thinking about how the future hospital is going to look like

[00:23:23] in some ways building the physical building is the easy part and even choosing the technologies

[00:23:29] is somewhat easy what is challenges is ensuring that we are changing the processes and how we

[00:23:34] provide care and that we are really communicating with our patients and with the whole community

[00:23:40] about the changing changes approaches to how we provide care so changing these processes that's

[00:23:45] really the big challenge that we have and have started on already we have a number of

[00:23:49] pilots running within the hospitals in all divisions and are really ensuring that everybody's on

[00:23:55] board for these changes maybe a comment from you about the trends that we see in healthcare

[00:24:01] there's an awareness that things need to be done differently that we also need to think

[00:24:07] more about prevention even if we start with secondary prevention so we reduced the high-risk

[00:24:14] admissions and high cost cases how do you integrate that awareness into thinking about

[00:24:22] building a new hospital something I've heard as well here that resonates with what we're doing

[00:24:27] and it's really thinking more about patient journeys and thinking less about departments

[00:24:33] or specialties and the patient journeys begin before our patients reach us at the hospital and

[00:24:39] they continue after they have gone back home so working cross-functionally working with primary

[00:24:45] care clinics working with and understanding what tools patients themselves are using to

[00:24:50] care for their health is really important and then from the hospital side really thinking

[00:24:55] about what does remote care look like what is truly a hospital at home and as we build this

[00:25:01] new hospital that we move into in 2030 the walls the physical building is only one part of the

[00:25:06] hospital what is the hospital outside of that building do you have any impressions about the

[00:25:12] general societal attitude about capturing data even before patients come to the hospital and

[00:25:18] after they leave the hospital how do you see that people are going to be open to this

[00:25:24] and to which extent do you think that they're going to be against this out of the fear

[00:25:28] that it's too too much surveillance yeah no absolutely I think this could be a challenge

[00:25:33] for many places we're really lucky in Iceland that there's a very high trust in government

[00:25:39] and very high trust in the healthcare system people are willing to share their data we are

[00:25:45] lucky in Iceland that actually most of our population has their genomes genomic data mapped

[00:25:50] to a large extent so we are very much on the cusp of being able to provide precision

[00:25:55] medicine and I hear that our patients won't personalize care so that's where we're heading

[00:26:01] in the end care delivery is better for patients and patient voices were included at him through

[00:26:07] various topics from digital health literacy concerns and hopes around the european health

[00:26:13] data space the interoperability showcase on the show floor demonstrated the benefits of

[00:26:20] the european patient summary when patients travel abroad and the impact of cross border health that

[00:26:27] gives clinicians in regions outside of patients residents valuable information about their health

[00:26:33] states many things are still missing though and one of them is the improved patient journey

[00:26:41] especially at the transit from pediatric to adult care Luke and Monica Ellison shared their

[00:26:49] impressions about the discussions around the topic drawing from their personal experience

[00:26:55] when he was 17 Luke suffered a brain tumor and is now devoted to sharing his experience and insight

[00:27:02] into the challenges of transitioning to adult healthcare and managing your own healthcare

[00:27:07] with a professional career imagine for your whole childhood you're driven around by your

[00:27:13] parents and they drive you to school they drive you on holidays and then suddenly at the age

[00:27:18] of 18 they say get in the car and off you go and that you have no driving lessons nobody teaches

[00:27:23] you how to use the car you're going to end up crashing quite a few times before you get the

[00:27:28] hang of it and it's a similar experience in healthcare where your parents have been managing

[00:27:32] your health when you're younger and especially if you've had a more complex condition that's a

[00:27:36] lot to manage and then we transition to adult as an adult at 18 you have to then learn how

[00:27:42] to manage that all yourself and at the moment there aren't the right resources for it so you don't

[00:27:47] have any kind of at where you can view your health records you don't actually know what your health

[00:27:54] records are your health history and I can see that causing a lot of problems for people especially

[00:27:59] if there's medication interactions and whatnot as mother of what was a pediatric patient who

[00:28:05] quickly transitioned into adulthood it was very refreshing to hear that this is an area

[00:28:11] we're having more conversations about I think we came out with three things really the first one is

[00:28:18] knowledge about where the gaps are so there is an app for my son's local hospital and he is a

[00:28:25] digital transformation consultant and yet he was not aware of this so there's a gap there so one

[00:28:32] thing is creating these amazing digital solutions but the other one is this mismatch between the

[00:28:37] user and knowing what's available so that was number one I think the second thing is almost

[00:28:42] renaming transition from pediatric to adult care as transfer from being hospital to being a citizen

[00:28:51] or from being a child who then becomes a young person who then goes to adulthood and we shouldn't

[00:28:57] be doing that at 16 in Ireland or 18 in the UK or Europe we should be talking about 24 and

[00:29:03] upward why is 24 a better choice 24 is apparently the age when a young person's brain is more

[00:29:12] the beginning of its maturity to adulthood so for some reason we classify that as 18

[00:29:18] but it should be 24 I would love to have more data or maybe do more research into that and maybe

[00:29:24] that's one first change start that transition at 24 and it maybe doesn't end till they're 30

[00:29:31] it's really good to see that I'm hearing it from everybody who's in the industry they're working

[00:29:35] towards holistic healthcare bringing everything together so you're not just you haven't got just

[00:29:40] one isolated app and a silo everything is being brought together and as a view to move it

[00:29:45] all into one place also people were talking a lot about getting more data available to patients

[00:29:53] so a lot of data has typically been held by the doctors and then the doctors if you want

[00:29:57] to learn more about what your healthcare you have to ask the doctor now they're looking to move it

[00:30:04] more towards patient held information so France has now got it it looks like Ireland are working

[00:30:10] towards getting it I think Norway and spoken to a few people I'm sure there's loads of other

[00:30:14] countries but it'd be great to see this starting to move that way direction in the UK as well

[00:30:19] technology is a small part of a successful digital transformation so I asked Diana Vanstein

[00:30:26] practicing clinician and entrepreneur about her observations at the conference

[00:30:31] and thoughts about the doctor's concerns she sees in her daily work as a pediatric resident

[00:30:37] I think there is a lot of eagerness and everybody really wants to learn more about AI they're very

[00:30:42] open to introduce new ways of working and I think there's a lot of awareness that it's also

[00:30:51] necessary because I think we are all seeing that the healthcare sector is very much under pressure

[00:30:57] right now and this is going to be the way to solve the issues that are coming towards us

[00:31:02] so I think that's a very great first step and I think the same thing that they spoke here about

[00:31:06] maturity we need to find the way how to navigate these changes and to navigate this revolution

[00:31:12] that is coming what is necessary for that is the pioneers to have them to lead leadership

[00:31:18] to lead this revolution what are the concerns that you're observing among clinicians

[00:31:25] I think I'm seeing a trend towards maybe having less concerns or being more open to the adoption

[00:31:34] so I see this trend of course there's still concerns because there are always concerns about

[00:31:38] privacy and who owns the data and how what is the responsibility of AI who is responsible for

[00:31:46] for these solutions and I do think that these are very legitimate concerns but I do think that

[00:31:52] the benefits that we have from this outweighs it so as long as we are going to be able to understand

[00:31:57] it and guide these concerns into a way that it's all good in the privacy sector it's all

[00:32:03] manageable the mistakes that can be made that they can be detected early on as long as you're

[00:32:08] going to be aware of them and you can navigate them then you're going to have the benefits

[00:32:12] will definitely outweigh this thank you for tuning in I hope you enjoyed the show so if you did

[00:32:21] do leave a rating or a review wherever you get your podcast thank you stay tuned