How can healthcare companies improve their marketing? (Dr James Somauroo)

[00:00:00] Dear listeners, welcome to Faces of Digital Health, a podcast about digital health and how healthcare systems around the world adopt technology with me, Tjasa Zajc.

[00:00:13] Today's episode is a bit different to what we usually cover. We're not going to talk about healthcare innovation that much. We're not going to talk about healthcare policy, but healthcare communication for companies.

[00:00:28] I spoke with Dr James Somauroo, CEO of SOMEX and host of the HealthTech podcast about the challenges healthcare companies face in public relations, the role of content marketing.

[00:00:42] And we went through some actionable advice for founders and organizations at different stages of growth in terms of how they should approach their public appearance and their marketing strategy, even if they don't have an in-house team or have doubts about paying an agency.

[00:01:03] In the end, I also asked James about his observations in the HealthTech space, trends and expectations in 2025 and more.

[00:01:17] Enjoy the show. And if you haven't yet, make sure to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen to your shows.

[00:01:24] And if you haven't yet, check out our newsletter, which you can find at fodh.substack.com.

[00:01:31] That's F-O-D-H dot sub-stack dot com.

[00:01:34] I really appreciate any thoughts, any opinions on Faces of Digital Health.

[00:01:39] So if you do take a minute to leave a rating or a review wherever you get your podcast, that's really going to make my day.

[00:01:49] So thank you.

[00:01:51] Now let's dive in.

[00:02:08] James, hi, and thank you so much for joining me for this discussion on Faces of Digital Health.

[00:02:14] We've both been in the digital health and podcasting space for more than five, six, seven years.

[00:02:22] And we just coordinated on LinkedIn that this is something that should have happened way, way long ago, right?

[00:02:30] It should.

[00:02:30] It's crazy that we haven't talked in...

[00:02:32] We met for the first time at Health Europe, didn't we?

[00:02:35] Yes.

[00:02:35] And we've obviously talked and seen each other around.

[00:02:38] But the fact that we've had podcasts for five years and not been on each other's podcasts is...

[00:02:43] It's a travesty, quite frankly.

[00:02:45] So I'm glad we're correcting it now.

[00:02:47] And yeah, looking forward to chatting.

[00:02:48] Let's go straight into your work.

[00:02:52] So you are hosting a podcast, but you are also helping companies with PR strategies through SOMEX.

[00:03:00] So I actually was thinking that we might dive into that a little bit more.

[00:03:05] Cool.

[00:03:05] What kind of challenges do you see that companies in healthcare face when it comes to PR?

[00:03:13] Where do they need most help with improvements?

[00:03:17] Yeah, it's a good question.

[00:03:19] I think things have changed over time.

[00:03:23] And I actually wrote about this.

[00:03:25] I did an article a while ago on...

[00:03:28] I talked a little bit about the history of PR and communications and marketing and social media and all that sort of stuff.

[00:03:34] And I guess it helps to understand the world that we've come from and the world that we find ourselves in, first of all.

[00:03:42] And when people used to think about marketing a product or when people used to think about getting PR, historically there have always been these gatekeepers to really big audiences.

[00:03:56] And the obvious example of that is newspapers.

[00:04:00] So back in the day, if you wanted to get your message about a B2C product, a consumer product,

[00:04:06] if you wanted to get that message out to the entire world or the entire country or entire area,

[00:04:12] you had to go via an editor of a newspaper or an editor of a trade magazine if it was B2B.

[00:04:18] And so these people just held the entire authority and route to all of your audiences.

[00:04:25] And so historically people have talked about and think about PR in those terms.

[00:04:30] They think about pitching to an editor who holds an audience.

[00:04:34] And that was the gatekeeper to getting results.

[00:04:37] Now, that is still very much the case because things like TechCrunch, which all health tech startups want to be in,

[00:04:46] or some broadsheets that go to the whole country from a newspaper perspective and definitely trade magazines that go to trade audiences,

[00:04:54] those things still happen.

[00:04:55] But with the rise of social media, they aren't the only way to doing that anymore.

[00:05:04] And actually, you have the ability to build an audience yourself by essentially being your own editor and producer of content.

[00:05:13] And so it's become a very good idea to treat your company, no matter what you do in health tech or biotech or frankly any other sphere,

[00:05:23] it's become quite important to become your own production company.

[00:05:27] Find the values of the audiences that you want to reach.

[00:05:30] Find what's going to entertain them, inspire them, educate them.

[00:05:34] And to actually go and create content for those audiences somewhat linked to your product.

[00:05:40] But actually, interestingly, what we see on TikTok and the TikTokfication of all platforms,

[00:05:44] actually your content doesn't always need anything to do with what you do or your product.

[00:05:48] You grow the audience, you give them value and people create positive associations with your content.

[00:05:54] So going back to your original question, what are the challenges?

[00:05:58] Navigating all of that, where do you start?

[00:06:01] What do you do?

[00:06:02] How do you define the value propositions for your audiences?

[00:06:05] How do you entertain them, educate them, inspire them?

[00:06:08] What's your strategy for that?

[00:06:10] But then actually, what's your execution of that?

[00:06:12] Are you going to do video?

[00:06:13] Are you going to do audio and podcasts?

[00:06:14] Are you going to do long-form copywriting?

[00:06:16] Are you going to do short form?

[00:06:16] Are you going to blend all of that stuff together?

[00:06:18] Okay, are you going to set up a team to do that?

[00:06:21] And so another challenge is, if you haven't raised $100 million,

[00:06:24] how are you going to hire a videographer, a graphic designer, a content strategist, a PR strategist,

[00:06:31] this, that, the other?

[00:06:32] You're going to have to set up a huge team to do that,

[00:06:34] which is why I think SOMEX as an agency has worked.

[00:06:38] Because straight off the bat, we were really specific in health tech and biotech.

[00:06:42] We spoke healthcare languages.

[00:06:44] We can jump on calls with people and immediately understand what they do.

[00:06:47] Okay, you're a class two medical device that does this, that, and the other.

[00:06:50] These are our audiences, this pharma company, this job title in the NHS.

[00:06:54] We understand that straight away.

[00:06:56] So now we're like, okay, we know these audiences care about these things.

[00:07:00] These are the things that we should and want to talk about.

[00:07:02] Now, artistically, how do we go and do it?

[00:07:05] And that's where the creatives come in.

[00:07:06] We're then a flexible resource that depending on their budget, they can go up and down on the amount of time.

[00:07:12] But no matter how much you have, no matter how much resource you have or how much budget you have,

[00:07:17] you're getting a little bit of a graphic designer, a video editor, a content strategist, a PR strategist,

[00:07:24] this, that, the other.

[00:07:24] You're getting bits of all of those people's time.

[00:07:27] One thing that I'm wondering, and I would love to hear your observation, is yes, you can do a lot on your own in terms of promotion, marketing.

[00:07:36] But that creation of that content takes a lot of time.

[00:07:41] So it's usually good to hire someone.

[00:07:44] And then the challenge becomes when you need to determine the return on investment of having that content person in-house.

[00:07:53] And that's where I think a lot of companies get stuck.

[00:07:57] That's the classical sales versus product rivalry, like who's more important.

[00:08:03] So how do you see that companies navigate that?

[00:08:07] Where do they find the justification to invest in their in-house content?

[00:08:13] Is it all about how much the founder, the CEO actually values that?

[00:08:18] How do you help companies determine their strategies?

[00:08:21] And how do the strategies differ based on the stage that the company is in?

[00:08:27] Okay, so let's start with how we convince people.

[00:08:31] It's a great question.

[00:08:32] And actually, I've been on new business calls where someone in the company has leant back in their chair,

[00:08:39] folded their arms and said, convince me that spending money on marketing is a good idea.

[00:08:44] And I used to do one thing.

[00:08:47] I now do something completely different, which is to thank them for their time and say that we're here for you once you've figured out that is the right thing for you.

[00:08:54] And I end the call there because I have completely stopped trying to get people to see the value in marketing.

[00:09:05] Because we're always from our side of the table in delivering that service on the back foot.

[00:09:12] Because to go to your other point about ROI, if a client is inherently focused on pure metrics driven ROI,

[00:09:27] it's very difficult to understand the value of marketing because it has always struggled.

[00:09:33] Marketing PR communications has always struggled to justify its existence on ROI.

[00:09:39] There are certain leads, there are certain indicators that marketing is onto the right thing.

[00:09:46] And per campaign, you can definitely and we definitely do set certain metrics around certain things.

[00:09:54] But there is always an intangible element to brand, always.

[00:10:00] Brand recognition, brand value, the amount of people that see and know you and what that means when you meet them in real life at an event

[00:10:08] or when you approach someone and they have a first meeting and they've seen you a lot of times like before.

[00:10:14] You can't particularly add a value to this.

[00:10:17] Now, all of that can aggregate into something like top line revenue or bottom line profit eventually and that side of things.

[00:10:27] It's just very difficult to plot that all the way through your P&L.

[00:10:30] So in answer to any of your other questions, you know, how much does it matter that the founder or CEO knows and cares about it?

[00:10:37] The answer is an enormous deal.

[00:10:39] Because if you look at the clients that get the most from us, it's the founders, the CEOs that are bought in.

[00:10:46] And actually our biggest client is a biotech company.

[00:10:50] The CEO is from marketing.

[00:10:53] So the CEO moved up to CEO from marketing.

[00:10:56] So inherently just understands value in a different way to someone that had perhaps been from a CFO going into it,

[00:11:05] who will be far more attentive on those financial metrics and what that means.

[00:11:11] Okay, what's this spend going to?

[00:11:12] And how many things are we getting for this?

[00:11:14] And how many leads have I got per this than the other?

[00:11:17] And, you know, we often have to try and justify ourselves and justify our existence with impressions and engagement rate and all these things.

[00:11:23] But what I say to people all the time, like when people become new clients is that if we don't think we can help you,

[00:11:29] we're just not going to take your money.

[00:11:32] And ultimately, we can give you indicators towards success.

[00:11:37] But frankly, if we don't meet your business goals, you're going to sack us anyway.

[00:11:42] So tell me the business goals.

[00:11:44] Because if what they want is leads, if what they want is convert or nurturing people in the pipeline towards the end,

[00:11:53] or indeed they just want new clients and contracts, whatever it is, whether it's all,

[00:11:58] and I've picked revenue there as like a sales and revenue.

[00:12:02] But if those are their goals within sales and revenue,

[00:12:04] actually what we can do at SOMEX is not necessarily build them a content plan and a PR plan and all these things.

[00:12:09] We can frankly just introduce them to six people that meets their 12-month targets.

[00:12:15] And then I can actually spend their budget on the marketing,

[00:12:18] which I know myself is going to help them in four or five quarters time or two, three quarters time,

[00:12:23] depending on what the arc is.

[00:12:25] What would your advice then be in terms of when should a company do its own marketing?

[00:12:31] And when does it make more sense to hire an agency?

[00:12:34] Or say somebody is not trustful towards agencies,

[00:12:40] thinking that they are not specific enough,

[00:12:43] that they don't know to your company enough,

[00:12:45] and they come to you and say,

[00:12:47] okay, we just want to do it ourselves.

[00:12:48] What do you suggest we do?

[00:12:51] What would you say?

[00:12:52] So I think obviously right at the start,

[00:12:54] first of all, let's talk about what stage, right?

[00:12:57] The obvious one is when you can't afford an agency,

[00:13:00] you need to do things yourself.

[00:13:02] And so what we say to all really early companies,

[00:13:07] two founders getting together with an idea,

[00:13:09] they want to do something,

[00:13:10] they want to increase awareness,

[00:13:12] so they have a goal that marketing can achieve.

[00:13:15] The very first thing to do at that stage is just get your basics right.

[00:13:20] And this is something that anyone can do.

[00:13:23] You can Google it.

[00:13:25] It's a really easy thing to do,

[00:13:26] but start with a messaging house.

[00:13:28] A messaging house, it's shaped like a house.

[00:13:31] It's an industry term.

[00:13:32] The roof is your vision and mission.

[00:13:34] And then you've got pillars that make up the house,

[00:13:37] which are your key messages and your proof points.

[00:13:40] Key messages are three to five things that you want to say

[00:13:43] that represent broadly what the company is about.

[00:13:47] And those are the three to five things you want to be known for.

[00:13:49] So they can be drawn from some of your values,

[00:13:51] maybe the strength of the founding team.

[00:13:53] It might be something specific about the product,

[00:13:55] or the market, or the bit that you corner,

[00:13:58] or whatever it is,

[00:13:59] like three to five messages that you're going to say loads.

[00:14:02] Underneath each of those messages are your proof points.

[00:14:04] So everything that makes those key messages defensible,

[00:14:06] every bit of data, every anecdote, every story,

[00:14:09] anything that makes those key messages defensible.

[00:14:11] So now you've got a messaging house.

[00:14:13] You've got the blueprint of communication.

[00:14:15] So you want to be really repetitive on those things.

[00:14:19] The next thing you want to do is an audience map.

[00:14:21] Any audience that you care about at all doesn't need to just be customers.

[00:14:25] You plot out, you write them all down,

[00:14:27] and you want to be as specific as possible here.

[00:14:29] So you want to go granular to like job titles as much as you can,

[00:14:32] even specific humans, if you really want to go that specific.

[00:14:36] But then plot their pain points,

[00:14:38] plot your value propositions to them,

[00:14:41] which key messages are most appropriate from the previous exercise.

[00:14:45] And then crucially in the final column of this table

[00:14:48] is where do they absorb information?

[00:14:50] And you want to go from like a PR perspective.

[00:14:52] So, you know, what publications do they read?

[00:14:54] What YouTube videos do they watch?

[00:14:56] What events do they go to?

[00:14:57] But then also from a content perspective,

[00:14:58] which social platforms they mainly on?

[00:15:00] What hashtags are they likely to follow?

[00:15:02] All this sort of stuff.

[00:15:03] So now you've got a very data-driven grid approach to communications

[00:15:09] because you go, now you go, what are my business goals?

[00:15:12] So if your business goals are to raise investment in the next nine months,

[00:15:16] okay, let's go to the investor line.

[00:15:17] What's their pain point?

[00:15:18] What's your value to them?

[00:15:20] Okay, we're a fast-growing investor.

[00:15:22] We're a great company in this space doing this thing.

[00:15:24] Potential to do da-da-da-da-da.

[00:15:25] Okay, great.

[00:15:26] Where do they absorb information?

[00:15:27] LinkedIn.

[00:15:28] These trades.

[00:15:29] Great.

[00:15:30] Let's write a press release and send that to blah

[00:15:32] because we've done, you know, this thing,

[00:15:34] which this publication likes.

[00:15:36] And let's do content streams on this,

[00:15:37] which will point towards investors.

[00:15:39] Right?

[00:15:39] Who else?

[00:15:39] Customers.

[00:15:40] What do they care about?

[00:15:41] Da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

[00:15:42] And that's how this is.

[00:15:43] And then you develop a content plan,

[00:15:44] a PR plan from those things.

[00:15:46] And from a PR perspective, again,

[00:15:47] Google had to write a press release.

[00:15:48] And journalists actually like it when agencies don't send a press release.

[00:15:52] Journalists actually like it when the founders do

[00:15:53] because it actually just shows that it's them

[00:15:56] and they're not going through a middle person

[00:15:57] and that kind of thing.

[00:15:59] So I'd always say do that sort of thing first

[00:16:02] because actually the thing with hiring an agency as well

[00:16:05] is that you want to know,

[00:16:07] you want to have a bit of a feel for what you're asking of them

[00:16:11] and what their offer is to you.

[00:16:14] I remember speaking to Patrick from Sarno Genetics about this

[00:16:17] when he came on my podcast.

[00:16:18] And he said that as a founder,

[00:16:21] and forgive me, Patrick, if I get this number wrong,

[00:16:23] but as a founder,

[00:16:24] you need to be basically 80% good at everything.

[00:16:26] And I've really related to that

[00:16:28] because actually if someone like the CEO

[00:16:31] knows the basics of marketing and PR and communications

[00:16:34] and has done that 80-20 exercise

[00:16:36] and has got 80% the way there with 20% the effort,

[00:16:39] actually now when the agency sits in front of you

[00:16:42] and says, okay, yeah, we're health tech experts,

[00:16:44] we're biotech experts,

[00:16:45] and we can do this and this for this price.

[00:16:48] It's going to take us this amount of hours

[00:16:49] and we're going to charge you an hourly rate.

[00:16:51] You've got a feel for actually,

[00:16:54] either you might say,

[00:16:56] that means your hourly rate is this

[00:16:58] and actually why should it be?

[00:16:59] Because then you can figure that out in a blended way.

[00:17:01] But also you can have a fair stab

[00:17:04] at negotiating with them in a really meaningful way

[00:17:07] and working with them to say,

[00:17:09] if we're doing all this long form video,

[00:17:11] actually we can actually take that in

[00:17:14] and turn that into long form written

[00:17:16] and chop that up.

[00:17:17] So can we come down on this

[00:17:18] because we have internal capacity

[00:17:20] with this graphic designer as well and blah, blah, blah.

[00:17:21] So knowing a lot about it

[00:17:23] and doing that initial bit yourself,

[00:17:25] you'll have far better negotiating power

[00:17:28] and positioning for when you do hire your agency.

[00:17:31] And in terms of could you get too big to have an agency?

[00:17:34] The answer is no.

[00:17:35] The agency is always going to play a role.

[00:17:37] And that's because,

[00:17:38] and I was talking to Jessica,

[00:17:39] my co-founder and wife about this.

[00:17:41] In order for an agency model to work,

[00:17:43] in my opinion,

[00:17:44] the only way that works is if you assemble a team

[00:17:49] that would be so unbelievably expensive to hire

[00:17:54] that it only makes sense to assemble that team as the agency

[00:17:58] and then sell parts of their time to other people.

[00:18:02] And then that's how you make your margin.

[00:18:04] Because if you just do a function

[00:18:06] that could be absorbed internally,

[00:18:09] what's the point of the agency model?

[00:18:12] It doesn't really make sense.

[00:18:13] And so that's why we're always trying to

[00:18:16] hire best in class of everything

[00:18:19] so that we've got this team of experts.

[00:18:22] Speaking of specific domains,

[00:18:23] such as healthcare and biotech,

[00:18:26] where do you see that,

[00:18:29] or which channels seem to work best in health tech?

[00:18:34] Because if you want to address clinicians, doctors,

[00:18:38] they're more of an exception than the rule,

[00:18:40] I would say on LinkedIn.

[00:18:41] In the past,

[00:18:43] I know that Twitter was a great channel for them,

[00:18:46] but I'm not sure what's happening now with X

[00:18:49] and just the decreased reputation of the platform.

[00:18:55] So how do you see that challenge?

[00:18:58] The fact that the sales cycles are long in healthcare,

[00:19:01] that the end users are hard to access.

[00:19:05] I don't know how many NHS people,

[00:19:07] you're from the UK,

[00:19:08] really spend a lot of time on LinkedIn.

[00:19:11] So to which extent would you say that's the right channel?

[00:19:14] Cool.

[00:19:15] So question one,

[00:19:18] which channels for health tech?

[00:19:20] The answer is always,

[00:19:21] it depends on the audience.

[00:19:23] So different audiences will absorb content

[00:19:25] in different ways on different platforms.

[00:19:27] And this is where the line

[00:19:29] between content and PR is blurred.

[00:19:32] Ultimately, we all,

[00:19:35] as whatever hat we're wearing,

[00:19:38] we absorb content on different platforms

[00:19:40] in different ways for different reasons.

[00:19:42] Sometimes I read TechCrunch,

[00:19:44] sometimes I look at TikTok on my phone,

[00:19:46] sometimes I watch a YouTube video,

[00:19:48] sometimes I scroll on LinkedIn,

[00:19:50] but those are the places that I am.

[00:19:52] So if I'm a customer for you,

[00:19:53] those are all places that you could play.

[00:19:56] However,

[00:19:56] I'm on different platforms contextually

[00:19:59] based on what sort of headspace I'm in.

[00:20:03] So am I in a buying mood on TikTok?

[00:20:06] Not for a B2B SaaS platform

[00:20:09] that can make my agency better,

[00:20:11] but maybe I am for a nice chunky jumper.

[00:20:15] Maybe I am in a buying mood for that

[00:20:17] more so on TikTok.

[00:20:18] So it's being appreciative

[00:20:20] of what audiences you have,

[00:20:22] where they spend their time

[00:20:23] and where are they in a mood

[00:20:25] receptive for your messages?

[00:20:28] Because whilst every investor

[00:20:29] will probably be on Instagram,

[00:20:32] they're not going to be looking

[00:20:33] for their next best investment

[00:20:34] on Instagram

[00:20:35] that's going to be fed a paid ad

[00:20:37] in that sense.

[00:20:38] So...

[00:20:39] I feel like challenge questions,

[00:20:41] you know.

[00:20:41] So tell me,

[00:20:43] if we think of B2B vendors,

[00:20:48] healthcare IT companies,

[00:20:49] health tech companies

[00:20:50] that really need to sell things

[00:20:53] to public healthcare systems

[00:20:55] through tenders.

[00:20:56] Yeah.

[00:20:56] So really long processes,

[00:20:59] very bureaucratic.

[00:21:00] Yeah.

[00:21:01] What role does TikTok play

[00:21:04] for those companies?

[00:21:07] Right now it doesn't play...

[00:21:10] It doesn't...

[00:21:11] I say it doesn't do anything.

[00:21:12] So there are always going to be

[00:21:14] first movers.

[00:21:15] There are always going to be

[00:21:16] people that claim

[00:21:19] the initial value

[00:21:21] of moving to a new platform.

[00:21:24] So what's the value

[00:21:26] of TikTok in that scenario

[00:21:27] selling to public health vendors?

[00:21:29] It's difficult to say.

[00:21:30] I think if you were

[00:21:32] one of the maybe AI

[00:21:34] co-pilot like scribes,

[00:21:37] you could probably do

[00:21:37] some really...

[00:21:38] And I'm sure like the likes

[00:21:39] of Tortoise and Heidi

[00:21:41] and that lot.

[00:21:42] Like they're doing

[00:21:44] a lot of B2C platform stuff

[00:21:47] and why not?

[00:21:48] But then their targets

[00:21:49] are clinicians

[00:21:50] and actually public health systems

[00:21:52] is more secondary.

[00:21:54] So TikTok, I don't know.

[00:21:56] I don't know where you should be.

[00:21:57] It would be a missed platform.

[00:21:58] Which one would you recommend?

[00:22:00] LinkedIn.

[00:22:01] 100% LinkedIn.

[00:22:02] 100% LinkedIn.

[00:22:03] For anything along those lines.

[00:22:04] Anything when you start

[00:22:05] the sentence with B2B,

[00:22:06] like you can't look past...

[00:22:08] You cannot look past LinkedIn.

[00:22:10] It's where everyone B2B

[00:22:12] is in the mood

[00:22:12] to look at that stuff.

[00:22:13] But cutting through

[00:22:14] on LinkedIn is your challenge.

[00:22:16] What's your advice

[00:22:17] for people,

[00:22:20] founders,

[00:22:20] companies getting

[00:22:22] to influencers

[00:22:25] or podcasters?

[00:22:27] You mentioned already

[00:22:29] that journalists

[00:22:31] prefer an in-person connection.

[00:22:34] So if a founder...

[00:22:35] Not always,

[00:22:36] but they like it.

[00:22:37] So tell me more about that.

[00:22:39] So where do you see

[00:22:41] the pitfalls?

[00:22:42] Where do you see

[00:22:42] the successes?

[00:22:44] Yeah.

[00:22:45] Yeah.

[00:22:45] Yeah.

[00:22:46] Because in my experience,

[00:22:49] what still works best

[00:22:50] is a recommendation

[00:22:51] from somebody

[00:22:52] I already know

[00:22:53] and trust.

[00:22:54] Of course.

[00:22:54] There's too many pitches.

[00:22:56] Even if it's personal,

[00:22:57] even if it's from a PR person,

[00:22:58] it's pretty much

[00:22:59] the same in my view.

[00:23:00] If my focus is elsewhere,

[00:23:03] it's just I'm not going to

[00:23:04] really take the time

[00:23:05] to look at all the requests.

[00:23:08] No, I agree.

[00:23:10] And you and I

[00:23:10] will get pitches all the time.

[00:23:11] And this is the sort of

[00:23:12] the beauty of doing

[00:23:14] what I've done.

[00:23:15] Like I've...

[00:23:15] Because I've been...

[00:23:16] I wrote for Forbes for a while

[00:23:17] as a contributor.

[00:23:18] So people are pitching me

[00:23:19] stories all the time.

[00:23:20] And obviously having the podcast,

[00:23:22] people pitch like guests

[00:23:23] in all the time and stuff.

[00:23:24] So I guess you and I

[00:23:26] will have seen so many pitches.

[00:23:28] We've got a good idea ourselves.

[00:23:29] And so actually I've often...

[00:23:33] And we do this all the time.

[00:23:34] Like we go through my pitches

[00:23:36] at SOMEX.

[00:23:37] And I send the best pitches

[00:23:39] to our PR team

[00:23:41] and say,

[00:23:42] this is why this was a good pitch

[00:23:44] for a podcast.

[00:23:45] And actually we've now

[00:23:46] somewhat templated that.

[00:23:48] But the long story short

[00:23:50] is that,

[00:23:51] well, the one major piece of advice

[00:23:53] that I would give,

[00:23:54] there is no shortcut.

[00:23:56] There is no mail merge,

[00:23:59] hello, first name.

[00:24:01] I saw your latest episode

[00:24:02] on insert episode.

[00:24:04] Yeah, you're rolling your eyes.

[00:24:05] I love it when I get a pitch,

[00:24:07] when somebody says,

[00:24:08] I really love what you're doing with.

[00:24:11] And then it's not my podcast.

[00:24:13] Yeah, it happens all the time.

[00:24:14] Yeah, it happens all the time.

[00:24:16] Yeah, it's so easy

[00:24:17] to see through that stuff.

[00:24:18] And I think for B2B SaaS founders,

[00:24:22] of course,

[00:24:22] that's where your mind goes.

[00:24:23] If I just put,

[00:24:24] if I just get a list,

[00:24:25] let's get the media list,

[00:24:26] let's get the list

[00:24:27] of all the podcasters,

[00:24:28] get their emails,

[00:24:28] mail merge a thing

[00:24:29] that says we enjoyed

[00:24:30] their last episode on.

[00:24:31] Get ChatGPT

[00:24:32] to riff on something

[00:24:34] about the title.

[00:24:35] And blah, blah, blah.

[00:24:36] Trust me,

[00:24:37] even if you've used ChatGPT,

[00:24:38] we can tell.

[00:24:39] And so I think

[00:24:39] the real value

[00:24:42] in a pitch

[00:24:43] is

[00:24:45] individually,

[00:24:46] first of all,

[00:24:47] just turn off the internet.

[00:24:49] Just disconnect yourself

[00:24:50] so you've got no

[00:24:51] ability to do that.

[00:24:52] Put yourself now

[00:24:53] in the shoes

[00:24:53] of that person

[00:24:55] and exactly

[00:24:56] what their job is.

[00:24:58] And now

[00:24:59] write something

[00:25:00] that is

[00:25:02] purely

[00:25:03] of value

[00:25:04] to them

[00:25:04] with the asset

[00:25:05] that you have

[00:25:06] which is the guest

[00:25:07] or the press release

[00:25:09] or the whatever it is.

[00:25:11] And now

[00:25:11] purely put yourself

[00:25:12] in the mindset

[00:25:13] of how do I help

[00:25:14] this person

[00:25:15] at the other end

[00:25:16] of the email

[00:25:16] with this thing

[00:25:17] that I have.

[00:25:18] So get out of your head

[00:25:19] that you're going to get

[00:25:20] into TechCrunch,

[00:25:21] you're going to get

[00:25:22] your guest into podcast

[00:25:23] which can be amazing

[00:25:24] for you.

[00:25:24] Get that out of your head.

[00:25:25] Your goal

[00:25:26] right now

[00:25:27] in this email

[00:25:28] is to give

[00:25:29] that person

[00:25:29] the most amount

[00:25:30] of value

[00:25:30] you can possibly

[00:25:31] give them

[00:25:31] with this asset

[00:25:32] that you have.

[00:25:33] So if it's a podcast

[00:25:34] guest and you'll

[00:25:34] relate to this

[00:25:35] is if someone

[00:25:37] says something

[00:25:38] along the lines

[00:25:39] of you know

[00:25:40] I've listened

[00:25:41] to the last

[00:25:41] few episodes

[00:25:42] of your podcast

[00:25:44] and I know

[00:25:44] that your structure

[00:25:46] is and I'm talking

[00:25:47] about my podcast

[00:25:47] there.

[00:25:48] I know that your

[00:25:48] structure is you

[00:25:49] spend half the time

[00:25:50] talking about the

[00:25:51] guest and their

[00:25:51] background if it's

[00:25:52] interesting and then

[00:25:53] half the time on

[00:25:53] their company and you

[00:25:54] pull out a few themes.

[00:25:56] This is why this

[00:25:57] guest would be really

[00:25:58] good because actually

[00:25:59] in the first half

[00:26:00] you could talk about

[00:26:01] this and this and it

[00:26:01] would be really

[00:26:02] interesting because

[00:26:02] they've just done

[00:26:03] these three things.

[00:26:04] Now when you move

[00:26:05] on to the company

[00:26:05] and talk about this

[00:26:06] I think it's super

[00:26:07] relevant because I

[00:26:08] know that you've

[00:26:09] talked about these

[00:26:09] three competitors

[00:26:10] before and all of a

[00:26:12] sudden this is now

[00:26:13] completely different

[00:26:13] because now I know

[00:26:14] why it's interesting.

[00:26:15] I know that they've

[00:26:16] actually listened.

[00:26:17] I know how this guest

[00:26:18] fits into my structure

[00:26:19] and why it would be

[00:26:20] good.

[00:26:21] This is an easy yes

[00:26:22] for me because that

[00:26:23] person is just focused

[00:26:24] on pure value of

[00:26:25] making my life easier.

[00:26:26] This person just

[00:26:28] slips in and is all

[00:26:29] good.

[00:26:30] What I don't want to

[00:26:31] lean on too much

[00:26:31] though is like I

[00:26:33] don't want to give

[00:26:35] the impression that

[00:26:35] oh my god like I'm

[00:26:36] so amazing you need

[00:26:37] to this pitch needs

[00:26:39] to be perfect in

[00:26:40] order for me to

[00:26:40] take it.

[00:26:41] That's not true at

[00:26:41] all either.

[00:26:43] Like we go through

[00:26:44] the list of

[00:26:45] applications on our

[00:26:46] application form and

[00:26:47] on the website and

[00:26:48] we'll pick things

[00:26:48] out and people can

[00:26:49] send email.

[00:26:50] People can ask

[00:26:50] questions to hey

[00:26:52] I've got this guest

[00:26:53] this is why I think

[00:26:53] that'd be interesting.

[00:26:54] Is there anything

[00:26:55] that you need as a

[00:26:56] pitch or anything like

[00:26:57] that and of course

[00:26:58] answer those and that

[00:26:58] kind of thing.

[00:26:59] We'll also try and

[00:27:00] find the value as much

[00:27:01] as possible as well so

[00:27:02] it's not all on this

[00:27:02] but I guess I'm

[00:27:03] highlighting that kind

[00:27:04] of perfect pitch as

[00:27:05] an example of we're

[00:27:06] just people too doing

[00:27:07] this in our basically

[00:27:08] our spare time as

[00:27:09] podcasters and so

[00:27:10] anything you can do to

[00:27:11] make it easier for us

[00:27:12] and just prove to us

[00:27:14] this is going to be a

[00:27:14] great episode and

[00:27:16] don't just focus on

[00:27:16] like why it's going

[00:27:18] to be great for you

[00:27:18] because as soon as

[00:27:20] you've pitched some

[00:27:20] like random cyber

[00:27:22] security thing in

[00:27:23] without mentioning

[00:27:24] health tech once

[00:27:25] I'm like obviously

[00:27:27] this is nonsense so

[00:27:28] it's yeah focus on

[00:27:29] the value for the

[00:27:30] other person as much

[00:27:30] as possible.

[00:27:32] Personalization which

[00:27:34] is tricky because if

[00:27:35] you didn't do your

[00:27:36] homework well enough

[00:27:37] then you can claim

[00:27:39] something is in my

[00:27:40] interest and you

[00:27:41] lost me completely

[00:27:43] if that is a missed

[00:27:44] interpretation.

[00:27:46] Yeah it's true

[00:27:46] no it's true

[00:27:47] it's true.

[00:27:48] Speaking of your

[00:27:50] podcast what are

[00:27:52] some of the latest

[00:27:53] trends in 2024 that

[00:27:55] you are observing

[00:27:57] what kind of

[00:27:58] impressed you this

[00:28:00] year when you were

[00:28:01] doing content for the

[00:28:03] podcast?

[00:28:04] Yeah nice question

[00:28:05] so the trends of

[00:28:07] this year has been a

[00:28:08] really tough year for

[00:28:11] startups as I said

[00:28:13] before like runways

[00:28:14] extending things

[00:28:16] getting more

[00:28:16] difficult budgets

[00:28:17] going downwards

[00:28:18] people trying to do

[00:28:20] more with less

[00:28:21] has been the general

[00:28:23] theme.

[00:28:24] I think in the

[00:28:25] COVID post-COVID era

[00:28:26] there was just there

[00:28:27] was so much energy

[00:28:28] around ideas

[00:28:29] I just felt new

[00:28:31] ideas were everything

[00:28:32] they were exciting

[00:28:33] and people were getting

[00:28:34] investment from people

[00:28:35] that had never

[00:28:36] invested in health

[00:28:36] tech and we had that

[00:28:37] like investment

[00:28:38] bubble and I think

[00:28:40] lately the ideas

[00:28:43] side of things just

[00:28:44] hasn't really been

[00:28:46] that exciting as in

[00:28:48] new ideas and

[00:28:49] obviously large

[00:28:50] language models have

[00:28:50] come in and there's

[00:28:51] been lots of ideas

[00:28:52] around what large

[00:28:53] language models can

[00:28:54] do but I think

[00:28:55] there's been this

[00:28:56] really you might call

[00:28:58] it healthy dose of

[00:29:00] cynicism that's now

[00:29:01] come in with regard

[00:29:02] to new ideas and

[00:29:03] actually it's been far

[00:29:05] more about revenue

[00:29:06] and execute.

[00:29:07] I was on a call

[00:29:07] earlier like with

[00:29:09] someone looking to

[00:29:09] do a seed or a

[00:29:12] series early series

[00:29:13] A or something but

[00:29:14] they were talking

[00:29:14] about they brushed

[00:29:15] over the fact like

[00:29:16] yeah we've done like

[00:29:16] two three four like

[00:29:18] two three million we

[00:29:19] might probably gonna

[00:29:19] do four five next

[00:29:20] year but and then

[00:29:21] they moved straight

[00:29:22] on to like other

[00:29:23] things that would

[00:29:23] compel the investors

[00:29:24] as like building their

[00:29:25] investor narrative

[00:29:26] and it's like hold

[00:29:26] on a minute we're

[00:29:27] now in a world we're

[00:29:28] talking about millions

[00:29:29] of revenues like

[00:29:30] that's not the

[00:29:31] biggest thing on the

[00:29:31] table for getting a

[00:29:32] decent sized seed or

[00:29:34] series A and that

[00:29:35] kind of thing it's

[00:29:35] becoming it's

[00:29:37] definitely become a

[00:29:37] lot more difficult to

[00:29:38] get investment and

[00:29:39] of course for us our

[00:29:42] main clients are

[00:29:43] startups right so the

[00:29:44] majority of our

[00:29:45] clients are health

[00:29:46] tech and biotech

[00:29:47] startups and so we're

[00:29:49] basically paid by the

[00:29:50] VCs who are paying

[00:29:51] the startups who pay

[00:29:52] us so ultimately any

[00:29:54] drop in VC markets

[00:29:55] affects us at the end

[00:29:56] of it and so what

[00:29:58] we've noticed is we've

[00:29:59] started to have bigger

[00:30:02] companies come from

[00:30:03] bigger agencies the

[00:30:05] global agencies that

[00:30:06] arguably might be a

[00:30:08] bit more bloated a lot

[00:30:08] more people a lot more

[00:30:09] kind of non billable

[00:30:11] stuff in their business

[00:30:12] model coming down to

[00:30:14] us and saying hey we

[00:30:15] just need real practical

[00:30:16] delivery on this on

[00:30:17] loads of this kind of

[00:30:18] stuff so again from the

[00:30:20] startup perspective and

[00:30:21] startup angle like a

[00:30:21] real focus on like

[00:30:23] execution just execute

[00:30:25] this business goal with

[00:30:26] this resource against

[00:30:28] this metric and very

[00:30:29] point and shoot project

[00:30:31] work I think has gone

[00:30:32] up which I think is

[00:30:34] very sensible by the

[00:30:35] way from startups and

[00:30:37] you talked earlier

[00:30:37] about being deployed

[00:30:38] against certain metrics

[00:30:39] and do we struggle yeah

[00:30:42] on a project basis I

[00:30:43] actually think it's

[00:30:44] very sensible to try

[00:30:45] and do that as much

[00:30:46] as possible and we've

[00:30:47] actually pointed people

[00:30:48] towards agencies that

[00:30:49] are better suited to a

[00:30:51] kind of shorter arc of

[00:30:52] results as well because

[00:30:54] we focus a lot on

[00:30:55] retainer like organic

[00:30:56] stuff over time where

[00:30:58] someone came to us but

[00:30:59] a big sort of data

[00:31:00] company came to us and

[00:31:01] said hey we need these

[00:31:02] results over the next

[00:31:03] six weeks and I

[00:31:04] actually said talk to my

[00:31:05] friend Josh over at

[00:31:06] this paid ads agency

[00:31:08] because they specialize in

[00:31:09] the type of thing that

[00:31:11] they were like we need

[00:31:11] this amount of leads

[00:31:12] over this amount of

[00:31:13] time and it's yeah

[00:31:14] there's other people

[00:31:15] better at this than us

[00:31:16] and actually I'd

[00:31:16] recommend these guys

[00:31:17] because I've seen what

[00:31:18] they've done with XYZ

[00:31:19] companies and so

[00:31:20] challenging question

[00:31:23] when the company a

[00:31:25] company is bootstrapping

[00:31:26] and they're trying to

[00:31:28] use internal resources

[00:31:29] yeah to just raise

[00:31:31] awareness about the

[00:31:32] company it's all it's

[00:31:34] also usually good to

[00:31:36] have like internal

[00:31:37] champions for social

[00:31:39] people that will drive

[00:31:41] thought leadership

[00:31:42] because that's not

[00:31:42] what you can do

[00:31:43] that's something that

[00:31:45] leaders need to do

[00:31:46] how do you turn people

[00:31:48] that really don't want

[00:31:50] to do that into being

[00:31:53] at least aware that they

[00:31:54] should do something

[00:31:56] yeah there's a lot of

[00:31:58] theory out there on how

[00:32:00] to succeed in messaging

[00:32:01] etc but if you're not

[00:32:03] at least a little bit

[00:32:04] interested in that then

[00:32:06] it's really difficult the

[00:32:08] company can just spend

[00:32:11] marketing budget on

[00:32:12] internal professional

[00:32:14] education for people to

[00:32:16] know what tricks to use

[00:32:18] on LinkedIn but then

[00:32:20] people are not going to

[00:32:21] do it yeah so what's

[00:32:23] your advice so firstly

[00:32:25] what I will say is the

[00:32:26] importance of this is

[00:32:27] increasing and it's

[00:32:29] increasing right now as

[00:32:30] you and I sitting here

[00:32:31] speaking the importance of

[00:32:33] doing this is going up

[00:32:34] because we know that

[00:32:37] especially on platforms

[00:32:39] like LinkedIn personal

[00:32:40] content is doing way

[00:32:42] better than company

[00:32:43] content and it's way

[00:32:45] easier to build audiences

[00:32:47] as individuals and so

[00:32:49] you know even from a

[00:32:51] SOMEX point of view

[00:32:52] like we're helping

[00:32:53] founders CEO C-suites

[00:32:55] with their personal

[00:32:56] content plans as much as

[00:32:57] we are now helping them

[00:32:58] with company content

[00:32:59] plans because people want

[00:33:02] to hear from people and

[00:33:04] that's ultimately it now

[00:33:06] in terms of the internal

[00:33:08] job of convincing your

[00:33:09] employees that it's a good

[00:33:11] idea I actually have quite

[00:33:12] a specific view on this

[00:33:14] and it might be contrary

[00:33:15] to what you think which is

[00:33:16] actually you can't

[00:33:18] no I actually expected

[00:33:20] that yeah you can't

[00:33:22] maybe that's not the bit

[00:33:23] you can't and the you

[00:33:24] shouldn't either I don't

[00:33:26] think you certainly

[00:33:27] shouldn't mandate people

[00:33:30] to do it in my opinion

[00:33:31] now some people will do

[00:33:33] that and it works

[00:33:33] they'll mandate people to

[00:33:34] do it and actually that's

[00:33:35] just enough accountability

[00:33:38] for those people who

[00:33:39] would want to do it

[00:33:40] anyway but they'd find

[00:33:41] every excuse not to do

[00:33:43] it and individually they

[00:33:44] feel the benefits having

[00:33:46] been mandated to do it

[00:33:48] so everyone kind of wins

[00:33:50] so I get it as a model

[00:33:53] I just personally don't run

[00:33:55] SOMEX that way I just

[00:33:56] don't I don't think

[00:33:57] that's the right thing to

[00:33:59] do because I just don't

[00:34:01] believe on a moral ground

[00:34:03] that I have the jurisdiction

[00:34:05] over someone else's method

[00:34:09] of communication to the

[00:34:10] world like I just I think

[00:34:11] that's a strange place for

[00:34:13] me that I don't

[00:34:14] But do companies actually

[00:34:15] mandate you actually have

[00:34:16] experience when companies

[00:34:18] would mandate publishing

[00:34:19] yeah because it's still a

[00:34:21] personal I know of it

[00:34:22] yeah I know of it they can

[00:34:24] you can mandate it you

[00:34:26] can strongly suggest it

[00:34:27] you can it can be named

[00:34:29] in OKR I mean there's

[00:34:30] lots of different ways

[00:34:31] that people can do that

[00:34:32] but yeah I do just

[00:34:34] firmly believe you don't

[00:34:35] have the you don't have

[00:34:36] the jurisdiction over

[00:34:37] there as a founder of a

[00:34:38] company to do that now

[00:34:39] the other thing that I

[00:34:40] would say is if it's

[00:34:43] going to be beneficial to

[00:34:44] the company I think as

[00:34:46] the the company founders

[00:34:47] the owners the CEOs the

[00:34:49] C-suite the chief of people

[00:34:51] or whatever role is

[00:34:53] chief of staff I think

[00:34:57] incentivizing people to do

[00:34:58] it is the right answer

[00:35:00] and again that's not

[00:35:03] bribing people that's

[00:35:04] incentivizing people so

[00:35:06] I think the leadership of

[00:35:08] the company are

[00:35:09] incentivized towards an

[00:35:10] exit and as part of that

[00:35:12] exit you need to increase

[00:35:14] your revenue and as part

[00:35:15] of increasing revenue

[00:35:16] you need to bring in new

[00:35:17] customers and in order to

[00:35:18] bring in new customers you

[00:35:20] need more awareness and a

[00:35:22] good way of getting more

[00:35:23] awareness is getting

[00:35:24] impressions on LinkedIn

[00:35:25] then a decent leader

[00:35:28] within a company will

[00:35:29] note all of that now

[00:35:31] they might not act just

[00:35:34] on that they might have

[00:35:35] more specific incentives

[00:35:37] around part of that they

[00:35:38] might be incentivized

[00:35:39] around business brought

[00:35:40] in if they bring the lead

[00:35:41] in and the sales team

[00:35:42] close them they're going

[00:35:44] to get incentivized now

[00:35:45] what's a great way to

[00:35:45] bring leads in hey do

[00:35:48] four LinkedIn posts a week

[00:35:49] on various things that

[00:35:50] educate entertain inspire

[00:35:52] your customers so there

[00:35:55] you've created an

[00:35:56] incentive for that

[00:35:56] leadership to do it

[00:35:57] anyway now the

[00:35:58] interesting thing is when

[00:36:00] individuals post on

[00:36:02] LinkedIn everything gets

[00:36:03] better for the individual

[00:36:04] anyway because that

[00:36:05] individual gains an

[00:36:06] audience that they own

[00:36:08] the individual gets

[00:36:09] notoriety and awareness

[00:36:10] of their own personal

[00:36:12] brand you can then mix in

[00:36:14] your own content streams

[00:36:15] about literally anything

[00:36:16] anything you care about

[00:36:17] or want to talk about

[00:36:19] or want to entertain on

[00:36:20] or whatever it is you

[00:36:21] can mix that stuff in

[00:36:22] with other stuff that

[00:36:23] brings in customers and

[00:36:24] you're going to receive

[00:36:25] the benefit of all that

[00:36:26] too I think there's an

[00:36:27] education piece there

[00:36:28] around like the value of

[00:36:29] personal content everybeauty

[00:36:31] that I've had in health tech has

[00:36:32] come from starting posting on

[00:36:34] LinkedIn in 2012

[00:36:35] had I not started posting

[00:36:36] on LinkedIn in 2012

[00:36:37] like none of this

[00:36:37] stuff would happen for me

[00:36:39] and so I firmly believe in

[00:36:41] the power of content

[00:36:41] for the individual and I

[00:36:42] think there's that

[00:36:43] Richard Branson quote

[00:36:43] isn't it where it's

[00:36:44] attributed to him of train

[00:36:45] people well

[00:36:46] enough so that they

[00:36:46] leave but treat them

[00:36:48] well enough so that they

[00:36:49] stay and I think that's

[00:36:50] what you want like you

[00:36:52] want to tell people by

[00:36:53] the way guys you post on

[00:36:54] LinkedIn all the time

[00:36:55] and you're gonna have so

[00:36:56] many opportunities that

[00:36:57] if you wanted to go on to

[00:36:58] do bigger and better and

[00:36:59] more wonderful things than

[00:37:00] being here on our journey

[00:37:01] those opportunities will be

[00:37:02] available to you that I

[00:37:03] I still encourage you to

[00:37:05] do it because it's going

[00:37:06] to benefit you it's going

[00:37:07] to benefit me and

[00:37:08] everyone's going to be in

[00:37:08] other place afterwards I

[00:37:09] guess it's that it's like

[00:37:10] that quote when somebody

[00:37:12] says what if we invest

[00:37:14] in the this person or in

[00:37:16] these people and they

[00:37:17] leave and the answer to

[00:37:19] that is what if you don't

[00:37:21] and they have absolutely

[00:37:23] and you had the value of

[00:37:25] them while they were with

[00:37:25] you and that you should

[00:37:27] when people leave pat

[00:37:29] them on the back and

[00:37:29] thank them and tell them

[00:37:30] that they you know did

[00:37:33] everything that they like

[00:37:33] that this is the thing I

[00:37:35] think people can get too

[00:37:37] tied up if someone is that

[00:37:38] valuable to you by the way

[00:37:39] like why aren't you just

[00:37:40] meeting with them all the

[00:37:42] time to find out what

[00:37:43] motivates them and what

[00:37:44] they need from their job

[00:37:45] and all that side of

[00:37:45] things and no one works

[00:37:48] well under duress and

[00:37:49] actually you want to leave

[00:37:50] the door open for people

[00:37:51] and of course if someone's

[00:37:53] going to be better off

[00:37:54] individually in their own

[00:37:56] career and everything

[00:37:57] somewhere else again

[00:37:59] thinking taking your

[00:38:00] founder of a company

[00:38:01] hat on and just putting

[00:38:02] your person human being

[00:38:04] hat on why would you

[00:38:05] want to stop that and

[00:38:06] get in their way yeah

[00:38:07] okay there's two modes

[00:38:08] of thinking there of

[00:38:09] course you're gonna be

[00:38:09] disappointed and of

[00:38:10] course you're not gonna

[00:38:11] have to do a lot of

[00:38:11] work to replace that

[00:38:13] person but ultimately

[00:38:13] sometimes this heart and

[00:38:15] head both working for

[00:38:16] people their heart might

[00:38:17] want to stay but their

[00:38:18] head thinks they've got

[00:38:19] to move on to get a

[00:38:21] better opportunity or a

[00:38:22] different opportunity or

[00:38:22] move sector or get

[00:38:24] different experience you

[00:38:25] can't have people in their

[00:38:26] 20s and 30s forever like

[00:38:28] it's just very unrealistic

[00:38:29] and so yeah if telling

[00:38:31] them to post on

[00:38:32] LinkedIn is gonna it's

[00:38:33] gonna kick them out the

[00:38:34] door then you definitely

[00:38:35] shouldn't be doing that

[00:38:36] yeah going back to

[00:38:38] health tech are there any

[00:38:39] expectations or predictions

[00:38:41] that you have for 2025 in

[00:38:44] terms of investments

[00:38:45] things have settled down a

[00:38:47] lot in 2024 they're going

[00:38:49] back to some people say

[00:38:51] normal levels unhyped

[00:38:54] levels what do you see in

[00:38:58] the upcoming year or more

[00:39:00] what do founders say or hope

[00:39:05] how are people preparing for

[00:39:07] the future yeah I think the

[00:39:10] end so you're coming to an

[00:39:11] end yeah another good

[00:39:12] question I generally stay

[00:39:13] away from predictions but I

[00:39:15] think one thing that will

[00:39:15] happen is one thing I

[00:39:17] definitely perceive is AI as

[00:39:20] a term will become almost

[00:39:24] cringeworthy people will

[00:39:25] really stop using the term

[00:39:27] AI and they're going to

[00:39:28] start to be really specific

[00:39:30] instead of AI they're going

[00:39:31] to say computational

[00:39:32] pathology we do

[00:39:33] computational pathology

[00:39:34] they're not going to say

[00:39:35] we're an AI company that

[00:39:36] people are going to get

[00:39:37] really specific on this

[00:39:38] because I think the the

[00:39:40] whole world is becoming far

[00:39:42] more educated and then

[00:39:43] especially the tech world

[00:39:45] is becoming very educated

[00:39:46] on varying types of AI

[00:39:49] because it's always what do

[00:39:50] you mean by that and to my

[00:39:52] point around people caring

[00:39:53] more about execution now

[00:39:54] it's actually less about the

[00:39:57] funky technology that's doing

[00:39:58] the thing it's just what

[00:39:59] what outcome are you

[00:40:00] creating here what service

[00:40:02] are you providing ultimately

[00:40:03] what service does this

[00:40:04] technology fit into and what

[00:40:06] does that service do for my

[00:40:08] overall business and it's

[00:40:10] that I think people and I

[00:40:12] like this by the way that

[00:40:13] LLMs hit the public domain

[00:40:15] all of a sudden lots of

[00:40:17] people in the country and in

[00:40:18] the world start using chat

[00:40:19] GPT and they realize here's

[00:40:21] a front end to AI they're

[00:40:23] now interacting with AI so

[00:40:24] now there's this like broad

[00:40:25] understanding somewhat or

[00:40:27] comfort level with what AI is

[00:40:30] and what it can do and that

[00:40:32] kind of thing give or take

[00:40:32] the hallucinations and the

[00:40:33] limitations and all the

[00:40:34] rest of it but there's a far

[00:40:36] more open dialogue about what

[00:40:37] AI is it's no longer

[00:40:38] reserved for just the tech

[00:40:41] world anymore but what that

[00:40:42] means is the sort of

[00:40:43] illusions and the mysticism

[00:40:45] around the term are

[00:40:47] certainly less I think for the

[00:40:48] more educated within

[00:40:49] technology now we're far more

[00:40:51] interested in and like

[00:40:54] what's the and I'm not I'm I

[00:40:57] care less that it's AI

[00:40:59] because I know what AI is

[00:41:00] broadly or I think I do I

[00:41:02] care less about that now

[00:41:03] what is this actually okay

[00:41:04] it's AI what are you

[00:41:07] driving in terms of change

[00:41:08] and is people comfortable

[00:41:10] with it and so there's a lot

[00:41:12] there's we're a lot deeper

[00:41:13] into that conversation now

[00:41:15] which I think is really good

[00:41:16] obviously the LLM hype is

[00:41:17] gonna we'll see I think it

[00:41:19] might die down it can't

[00:41:22] really see us getting overly

[00:41:23] hyped about it but as we move

[00:41:25] towards LLM's becoming

[00:41:26] medical devices I think that's

[00:41:27] going to be a really

[00:41:28] interesting thing to watch

[00:41:30] again a lot of dialogue

[00:41:32] around the co-pilots being

[00:41:33] medical devices and that kind

[00:41:35] of thing but I also I've

[00:41:37] talked about co-pilots a few

[00:41:38] times on this I

[00:41:40] instinctually I just feel like

[00:41:43] they they really do change

[00:41:45] healthcare for the better if

[00:41:47] we can get them right and

[00:41:49] there are instances tortoise

[00:41:51] working with great Ormond

[00:41:52] street is a good example of

[00:41:54] deployment in the NHS like they

[00:41:56] they can work and actually I

[00:42:00] want to see that day I want

[00:42:01] to see that day that which

[00:42:01] there's clinic with my

[00:42:02] clinician has on now that

[00:42:03] we're just not burdened with

[00:42:05] that like God like it just

[00:42:08] changes things so drastically

[00:42:10] huge burden lifts it's good to

[00:42:13] see that there's optimism on

[00:42:15] the horizon one of the things

[00:42:17] that I think surprised me

[00:42:18] lately was the realization of

[00:42:21] how important the network and

[00:42:26] the hospital infrastructure is

[00:42:28] so for example if you don't

[00:42:31] have an updated computer if the

[00:42:33] computer is too old if the

[00:42:35] Wi-Fi isn't there or if the

[00:42:37] connection is patchy even good

[00:42:40] solutions can look clunky but

[00:42:45] it's not really the solutions

[00:42:47] point yeah the whole

[00:42:49] architecture in the hospital is

[00:42:52] such an important middleman that

[00:42:54] we often don't really talk about

[00:42:55] when we're talking about

[00:42:57] solutions like by the way I

[00:42:59] think that's such such an

[00:43:00] important point because

[00:43:01] actually one thing that we I

[00:43:03] think we are still lacking and

[00:43:05] I know a lot of work going into

[00:43:07] this is trust in new technology

[00:43:11] and one of the things that builds

[00:43:12] trust in new technology is

[00:43:15] frankly just that it works all the

[00:43:18] time and so if you get to a

[00:43:21] platform and it doesn't work and

[00:43:22] it's slow and it crashes all of a

[00:43:24] sudden in healthcare on the

[00:43:25] ground floor clinical healthcare

[00:43:27] that clinician has now just lost

[00:43:29] trust with this completely because

[00:43:31] it needs to work it needs to work

[00:43:33] the first time it needs to work

[00:43:34] every time and and that

[00:43:36] infrastructure point is huge to

[00:43:38] building this trust because okay

[00:43:40] yeah it was the internet and it

[00:43:42] was the the internet service

[00:43:43] provider or it was the router or

[00:43:45] whatever it wasn't actually my tech

[00:43:46] no one cares no one cares the fact

[00:43:48] is I couldn't use your tech and now

[00:43:49] I don't want to use it and I'm

[00:43:51] going back to my bleep because my

[00:43:53] bleep works

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