How Is NHS Working With Innovation and Startups? (Mindy Simon)

[00:00:00] Dear listeners, welcome to Faces of Digital Health, a podcast about Digital Health and how healthcare systems around the world adopt technology with me, Tjasa Zajc

[00:00:14] There are over 200 hospital trusts in the UK, plus during over 1,200 hospitals

[00:00:23] With those numbers and it's 67 million people, UK is quite a large market in Europe

[00:00:31] However, selling to the NHS is anything but easy and this is what you will hear about today

[00:00:38] I spoke with Mindy Simon, co-director at the NHS Innovation Accelerator

[00:00:44] The NHS Innovation Accelerator is one of the opportunities startups half when they want to scale and get better connections inside the NHS

[00:00:56] Mindy is responsible for the program's execution while providing guidance to innovators and startups that already have customers

[00:01:04] There's other programs in the NHS for more early stage startups

[00:01:11] In this discussion, Mindy talked about the importance of gaining visibility in the NHS which she says is the biggest struggle for startups

[00:01:21] We also discussed tender processes which contribute to innovation procurement and challenges related to the requirements in the standards

[00:01:30] For example, startups need to be mindful of their carbon emissions

[00:01:36] How much space software uses in the cloud or how is equipment disposed of if you're a provider of hardware?

[00:01:45] Enjoy the episode where you will learn more about how the NHS works with startups

[00:01:52] Before we begin, I'd like to give a shout out and thank our listener Ashok who left the review for the show

[00:02:00] He wrote, Faces of Digital Health podcast is so useful for me as I'm working in the healthcare domain

[00:02:06] And the podcast helps me get to know about the global trends associated with the digitalization of this domain

[00:02:14] Thank you Ashok, and if you also have your thoughts or feedback to share, do leave a rating or a review wherever you listen to your podcast

[00:02:25] And also check out our newsletter you can find it at fodh.substack.com

[00:02:32] That's fodh.substack.com

[00:02:36] Now let's dive into this episode

[00:02:52] Mindy High and thank you so much for joining me on Faces of Digital Health

[00:02:58] To discuss innovation in the NHS and NHS innovation accelerator

[00:03:04] But just before we begin, I'd really love to ask you about how you are doing

[00:03:13] It's September when we are recording this and recently this graph has been quite popular on nintendo prepared by an expert Liam Kahil

[00:03:26] About when to sell to the NHS and how the NHS works like and if you look at this schedule

[00:03:32] It's September, it's trying to contract time companies should start putting out more tangible proposals and communicating plans and intentions

[00:03:40] So how do you understand them are going so far?

[00:03:43] How's your item looking up and what are you doing in the accelerator?

[00:03:47] Where is your focus at the moment?

[00:03:49] I think that graph is quite honest about it, particularly that august bit

[00:03:54] And we've got your lull, wait, I literally don't think anybody works in health service

[00:03:58] And also the NHS is sort of a quiet period

[00:04:02] But we don't really have a quiet period

[00:04:05] September for us tends to be all systems going, it's because when we start to do a recruitment starts on the first to September for our next intake for next year

[00:04:14] So while we are alongside helping our fellows to navigate the NHS and work with the NHS

[00:04:22] We have the kind of separate piece of actually trying to recruit a whole new batch of fellows

[00:04:28] And that involves quite a lot of course preparation for paperwork, etc.

[00:04:33] But then there's also a lot of talking

[00:04:34] So we do quite a few webinars where we speak to innovators about what's expected, what can we give them, what we expect from them

[00:04:42] And what they kind of application process looks like because it's quite a detailed application process

[00:04:48] So we want to make sure that people have as much support as they can while they're doing it

[00:04:52] And then we also do there are some conferences that we attend, just to make sure that we are speaking to people on the ground, getting out there and also speaking to NHS

[00:05:01] So September is kind of weird place for us

[00:05:04] I want to say some of those that grow up though, I don't think September is the only really busy time for funding

[00:05:09] I think if you're looking for funding, you need to start also in February

[00:05:13] February and March at the end of people's budgets is when they start to realize whether or not they've got extra money

[00:05:20] So that is a super busy time also

[00:05:23] So don't just funding with the next September, when everything starts to open up

[00:05:27] I would say almost February and March, you're cheeky times to get some cash

[00:05:33] Yeah, usually the beginning of the year is also when companies start planning

[00:05:38] So they're marketing budgets and things like that

[00:05:41] So if you're working in that area, that definitely a good time to reach out

[00:05:46] And you mentioned that you are getting in touch with entrepreneurs trying to raise the awareness about your program

[00:05:53] And this is also why we are here today

[00:05:56] I actually wasn't aware of the program myself

[00:05:59] And I think it's great that the APABly System such as the NHS has such a program

[00:06:04] But I do want to clarify how do you fit in the NHS

[00:06:09] Because since 2016 the NHS has also had the National Clinical Lead for Innovation

[00:06:16] Which established the NHS Clinical Entrepreneur program

[00:06:21] So how do you as the NHS Innovation Accelerator differ from that program?

[00:06:27] Who's there a difference in who should go where?

[00:06:30] Yes definitely there is a difference

[00:06:32] And there's some overlap which you will find with I think with any sort of program of support

[00:06:36] The Accelerator Access Collaborative

[00:06:40] Fund the NIA

[00:06:41] The Clinical Entrepreneur's program which we call step because I'm going to say that at some point

[00:06:45] And the SPRI so they fund three different innovation focused programs

[00:06:50] And there's a kind of a clear difference between the three of us

[00:06:54] So set tends to be for more early stage when you've got ideas

[00:06:58] They will nurture those ideas

[00:07:01] Help you think is this a good idea?

[00:07:04] I mean we should be doing it's really about helping you network and build a knowledge base

[00:07:10] So ideation becomes a reality

[00:07:13] Or it might just be that you've got a really good you want to be an innovation

[00:07:17] But you don't necessarily want to be an innovator

[00:07:20] So there's a difference between them, people who want to support innovation

[00:07:22] But not necessarily want to come up with their own innovation

[00:07:25] And step is fantastic for that

[00:07:27] There are a lot of entrepreneurs within step

[00:07:30] To it's like a family and you get a lot of connections

[00:07:32] But what normally happens is people come from step

[00:07:37] And then they come to us which is where they get the real deep dive support around their innovation

[00:07:42] Because there's a lot of entrepreneurs within step

[00:07:46] It's a little bit more difficult I would say to get that real one-to-one support

[00:07:50] Whereas because we're much smaller program we take up to 24 over year

[00:07:54] That supports a little bit clearer

[00:07:56] It's a little bit more about you as an innovator and your innovation

[00:08:00] And then as per eyes all about the funding

[00:08:02] You've been with accelerators in 2017 so seven years

[00:08:08] Can you talk a little bit about the companies?

[00:08:11] So how old is the oldest company that's been a part of the program or

[00:08:16] How old are usually the companies that join the program

[00:08:20] Because you can't be a seed startup

[00:08:23] You already have to have some contracts

[00:08:25] So you have to have your idea already a little bit more developed

[00:08:29] When we first start off

[00:08:31] I would say the innovations were been around for two or three years

[00:08:36] Because in that period of time it would have been easier to be piloted

[00:08:41] As in the NHS probably had more money, more capacity, a general more wrap around care around innovation

[00:08:47] They may not have had the knowledge how to do innovation

[00:08:50] Or where to find that innovation

[00:08:52] So that's where the gap would have been

[00:08:54] Whereas now because of the whole situation with COVID

[00:08:58] And there's sort of a number of things that have come back with there

[00:09:00] Is the innovations tend to be I would say older

[00:09:05] So it's slightly more mature

[00:09:07] And that's because they've taken a little bit longer to get any sort of traction

[00:09:11] Or any sort of evidence base

[00:09:14] COVID I think upset things where the NHS didn't have the capacity to work with innovation

[00:09:19] They've also taken a lot of other innovations during COVID

[00:09:22] That we was just really quick

[00:09:24] Let's get this problem fixed

[00:09:25] I've seen some in the other fixet

[00:09:27] I don't necessarily, I'm not necessarily doing much due diligence

[00:09:30] As I would normally do because we need a problem fixed

[00:09:33] And that's perfectly acceptable because you need to be able to react

[00:09:36] But now they're coming on the other side

[00:09:38] Where they are thinking to themselves

[00:09:41] Is this the right innovation for us?

[00:09:43] Let's dive into that a little bit more

[00:09:46] So the NHS is investing in innovation through various funding mechanisms

[00:09:51] We were looking at the annual schedule

[00:09:54] How does the NHS accelerate your feet in the story

[00:09:58] So how do you see that you can help start as in what ways

[00:10:02] Do you help startups either figure out how to get to that funding

[00:10:07] Or how to get to customers oftentimes

[00:10:11] Start up solve point problems

[00:10:14] Have point solutions that are very useful

[00:10:18] It's just really difficult to get them in the system

[00:10:22] So how do you help with that?

[00:10:24] Where do you see your main role is when it comes to working with startup?

[00:10:29] So the situation with funding is we don't provide money ourselves

[00:10:32] We don't have any access to funding directly

[00:10:36] And that's because everything needs to be a fair and open process

[00:10:39] So they should never really have one place that you go to

[00:10:42] That always pushes things forward

[00:10:45] It should be open to any innovations available

[00:10:47] But what we do is we do feed into those discussions

[00:10:50] Around what we care challenges

[00:10:52] That need to be addressed within the NHSR

[00:10:55] So where should that funding be funded?

[00:10:58] Funnull through

[00:10:59] It's a big piece of how to determine what funding

[00:11:02] And often all advice is around how do you alleviate those barriers

[00:11:05] This innovation or learning program which has two parts to it

[00:11:09] And there's a set of innovators with us for three years

[00:11:12] So two parts are in the first year

[00:11:14] It's all about giving you the tools

[00:11:17] And I always use an analogy of learning to fish

[00:11:19] Because what we're here to do is not give them the fish

[00:11:22] It's not put them, this is your contract

[00:11:24] What we're here to do is to allow them to accumulate that knowledge

[00:11:30] So that they can go out and do that fishing themselves

[00:11:34] We put them in front of those key decision makers

[00:11:38] But when you're in front of that key decision maker

[00:11:40] What need to be able to do is talk that language

[00:11:42] So that's what we're teaching them to do

[00:11:45] What is the language that's going to resonate with that stakeholder

[00:11:50] Is it, are you looking more your value proposition?

[00:11:53] Would it be looking more your evidence base?

[00:11:55] Will they be thinking how are you addressing health inequalities?

[00:11:58] It's very much

[00:12:00] They're understanding, they kind of landscape that they're working in

[00:12:03] And having the tools to work with that landscape

[00:12:06] They can a second part of the learning is also about just updating them on what's happening

[00:12:10] So that you understand what you're playing, feel that you're playing in

[00:12:13] If you don't understand that there's funding that might be coming from a certain area

[00:12:17] Or there's a focus in a certain area

[00:12:19] Then how are you going to work with them?

[00:12:21] So things like we because of the political situation in the last few months

[00:12:25] With of course at the time when the general election was called

[00:12:28] Nobody had really any idea about what the parties were going to be focusing on

[00:12:32] We helped the fellows understand that Labour is looking at this

[00:12:35] Conservatives looking at that so down the line you need to be thinking

[00:12:38] If Labour wins, this is what you need to be considering

[00:12:41] If Conservatives win, this is what needs to be considering

[00:12:43] Now once somebody's elected that whole thing changed that landscape

[00:12:48] So very much a second part of that learning is about

[00:12:52] Not giving them that tools to go out but giving them the information

[00:12:55] They have in the back of their heads so that they know as they're working

[00:12:59] What they need to be considering

[00:13:01] We also give them set packages of work

[00:13:03] Which I think makes us stand us out from other sort of innovation programs

[00:13:07] There's certain areas that we have service asking for

[00:13:11] And they want to make sure that innovators are engaging with it

[00:13:14] Because there's societal problems and things that are very much being pushed out

[00:13:19] So let's think of net zero. The NHS has an aim to get become net zero

[00:13:24] And I can't remember they keep switching to go post

[00:13:27] I think it's 45, 25, 25 around that area

[00:13:30] Where all innovations have to be at a certain level

[00:13:34] And making sure that they're not contributing to carbon emissions

[00:13:37] Can you explain a little bit further or give an example

[00:13:40] Or two on how does the net zero policy impact

[00:13:47] The way that startups think or design their solutions for applications

[00:13:52] It might be difficult to imagine how they can impact the net zero policy

[00:13:57] It's really difficult for innovators to understand what they need to be doing

[00:14:01] There's a lot of information out there

[00:14:03] But sometimes because there's a lot of information

[00:14:05] It gets even more difficult to understand it

[00:14:08] I think right now and again, it's all about

[00:14:11] If you're starting now starting up

[00:14:14] You'll have a lot more influence on what you can do

[00:14:16] If you're a startup that's further down in line, you need to be considering

[00:14:20] What your carbon emissions are?

[00:14:22] What can you do to change?

[00:14:24] Not necessarily right away

[00:14:26] But over time that will help with that target

[00:14:31] I leave you or something that will involve an innovation that will involve

[00:14:34] A lot of the equipment

[00:14:36] How is your equipment disposed of?

[00:14:39] How is your equipment used?

[00:14:40] What is your life cycle?

[00:14:42] If you're digital, how much space are you going to use within the cloud?

[00:14:46] It's so specific about that innovation

[00:14:48] Because again, you might be using a very small bit of space

[00:14:51] Somebody else might be using a lot

[00:14:53] It really just depends on that innovation

[00:14:55] But if I was innovating now, I'd be reading up on the Green Island Chess website

[00:15:00] And just trying to think to myself

[00:15:02] I am here now

[00:15:04] This is how much I use

[00:15:06] This is the material I use

[00:15:09] What can I do to do better?

[00:15:12] And there's going to be a cost to that

[00:15:13] So is what is the funding going to come to do better?

[00:15:17] Because at some point we can only hope

[00:15:20] But the NHS will provide some funding for innovators

[00:15:24] To move to a more green space

[00:15:26] But I imagine that probably hardest part

[00:15:29] Is just not having any spare cash to move towards this

[00:15:33] I don't know if you're against or the next question

[00:15:36] Which is what's the biggest challenge that startups face

[00:15:40] If we look at the debates around innovation and NHS

[00:15:44] I would say that the general sentiment is that it's really difficult to sell to the NHS

[00:15:51] So where do you see the biggest challenges for startups?

[00:15:57] And then I would also really be interested in hearing

[00:16:00] What do you think is the easiest thing for them if there is even such a thing?

[00:16:06] I think the hardest thing

[00:16:07] I think most people think the hardest thing is funding

[00:16:09] Is about making sure you've got a cash for one

[00:16:10] You've got cash

[00:16:11] I don't think I mean you can have lots and lots of cash

[00:16:14] If you're not visible

[00:16:16] If they're not seeing you, it does not matter

[00:16:19] How many, how much investment you have, what's your run way

[00:16:22] You can have a run way for four years

[00:16:24] For me the hardest thing is visibility

[00:16:26] That's your biggest issue

[00:16:28] Is people knowing that you're there

[00:16:30] And knowing that you are worth taking on

[00:16:33] So it's getting that first contract

[00:16:35] Or that first pilot site to prove your worth

[00:16:39] And for me that is again as I said before, it's really crowded

[00:16:43] Is there a company or a startup that you could mention

[00:16:48] As a case study or as a good example

[00:16:51] Where that visibility was successful

[00:16:56] And how basically did the company come to the end result?

[00:17:01] So what steps have worked for a specific company

[00:17:05] That you might have in mind

[00:17:07] If there's any examples that you want to mention

[00:17:10] And I definitely love to then

[00:17:12] Also continue with what the startups actually do

[00:17:16] The ones that you take under your umbrella

[00:17:19] So yeah, is there a case study that we can go through?

[00:17:24] I think what success looks like

[00:17:27] Is very different depending on the innovation

[00:17:29] What is the innovation hope to achieve?

[00:17:33] So if the innovator is looking at this as a career

[00:17:36] That will make them money

[00:17:37] And it will be their main source of income

[00:17:40] It's very different than an innovator

[00:17:42] Who is looking to have a big impact on your lives of patients

[00:17:47] And to have it rolled out

[00:17:49] So if you look at things like joint dimensional research

[00:17:53] They are all about

[00:17:54] It's not an ordinary necessary

[00:17:56] No, it's not like one of those ones that's all out there

[00:17:59] But what they have done

[00:18:02] Is allowed patients to get involved in clinical trials

[00:18:07] Which is a huge thing

[00:18:09] But they have done that and they're not looking to make a profit

[00:18:12] They are looking to do something good

[00:18:14] So that for me is a different measure of success

[00:18:17] Than any sort of commercial company

[00:18:19] Are you a non-commotion model or a commercial model?

[00:18:21] If you're looking at something that needs to be

[00:18:23] They're leading player in their field

[00:18:25] Is super well known

[00:18:26] I was at Orca

[00:18:27] They are right out there

[00:18:29] And even they said the name and you know who they are

[00:18:31] Everybody, they're synonymous with that kind of

[00:18:35] Healthcare apps and making sure things are reviewed properly

[00:18:39] And they're the right level

[00:18:41] Everybody knows about them

[00:18:43] And that's because they have been

[00:18:45] Excellent at getting out there and speaking to your key decision makers

[00:18:48] They knew their market

[00:18:50] They fully understood what it was they were doing

[00:18:53] They didn't go in there and try and plug it

[00:18:57] They developed a knowledge

[00:18:59] And their understanding of the industry that they're playing in

[00:19:03] Before they decided to push themselves out

[00:19:07] And I think that's probably the first thing I would say to the writers

[00:19:10] Is don't try and plug it

[00:19:12] Don't sense somebody out there who cannot speak the language

[00:19:15] Because you will be quickly found out

[00:19:17] And this trust is something you do not want to be held service

[00:19:21] You want people to trust and have confidence

[00:19:25] That you know what you're talking about

[00:19:27] And then they will grow that trust and confidence

[00:19:30] And that's what Orca has done

[00:19:31] We mentioned in the beginning that the program started in 2017

[00:19:37] Do you have the number of all the companies that have gone through the program

[00:19:43] Or at least an approximate number given that it's a three year program

[00:19:47] Yeah, I think it's on 95 we've looked after which is cry

[00:19:52] Every time I say number like well, there are lots of innovations

[00:19:55] And they're all varying degrees of success

[00:20:00] Today the health service might be looking at this tomorrow it may not

[00:20:04] So it just depends on you writing that wave at the right time

[00:20:09] And that's what we've seen with just innovations in general

[00:20:12] You can have two identical innovations that do exactly the same on paper

[00:20:18] And one might fly and one might not

[00:20:21] And there's so many nuances to that

[00:20:25] I think the most important is making sure that the innovation is sound

[00:20:28] And it actually addresses a problem

[00:20:30] A lot of startups will think all my innovation is so unique

[00:20:34] And it does something so much better that any other innovation could possibly be do

[00:20:37] It's a quite a blink of mentality within it, Vaters

[00:20:41] We start this discussion around innovation and applications

[00:20:45] And the fact that you are now looking for new applications

[00:20:50] And companies to join the accelerator

[00:20:53] All the information is on the website

[00:20:57] What people can, so neither application

[00:20:59] See the reasons why they should apply

[00:21:01] But very briefly who do you?

[00:21:04] Who would you say should apply when's the deadline

[00:21:07] And what are the key three things that people considering applying should know?

[00:21:14] The deadline is 14th October and I'm glad to remember that

[00:21:16] Who do I want to see apply?

[00:21:18] I want to see any blue with a really great innovation

[00:21:20] That's the God's Honest Truth

[00:21:21] I think there are some areas that are completely underrepresented

[00:21:25] Some sort of conditions like oral health

[00:21:27] Nobody kind of works within that space

[00:21:29] But it is huge women's health

[00:21:31] Because I'm a woman and just generally because we're 50% of population

[00:21:34] I want to see innovations that are dressed now

[00:21:38] One thing that I want to say to people is

[00:21:41] Please do not think that you need to be a specific type of person

[00:21:44] This is not about what you look like

[00:21:47] It's not about your job from before

[00:21:49] It's not about your background

[00:21:50] It's about you as a person

[00:21:52] I know it can be really scary to apply

[00:21:55] Because you're thinking to yourself

[00:21:56] Everybody else can be better than me

[00:21:58] They're probably not

[00:21:59] They're just human

[00:22:00] And that's the thing you learn when you're on the accelerator

[00:22:04] You're all in these things sort of boot

[00:22:06] When you're an innovator

[00:22:08] It almost neutralizes those kind of aspects

[00:22:10] You become all on the same level

[00:22:12] And the same level playing field

[00:22:14] So don't be afraid to apply

[00:22:16] Because you think somebody else is going to be better than you

[00:22:19] Or has more than you

[00:22:21] The second bit is

[00:22:22] Care about what you're applying for

[00:22:24] Don't please don't just apply

[00:22:26] If you're not going to turn up for any of these sessions

[00:22:30] Or you're not going to engage

[00:22:31] This isn't just shouldn't be a badge

[00:22:33] This should be using

[00:22:35] The

[00:22:37] Plethora of resources we will provide to you

[00:22:41] Engage with us

[00:22:42] Come and jump on this journey

[00:22:44] We are super excited to see any great innovations

[00:22:47] I'm not as I said

[00:22:49] Or it helps more men's health

[00:22:50] Probably my biggest ones

[00:22:52] But I have a quarter actor

[00:22:54] He's got other things he cares about

[00:22:55] I think that's team members

[00:22:56] We all are passionate about seeing great innovation

[00:22:59] But that point of please just apply

[00:23:02] And if you need support

[00:23:03] Will help

[00:23:04] I'm always happy to help and have a conversation with people

[00:23:07] It is scary

[00:23:08] It's really scary applying for something

[00:23:10] But you never know until you apply

[00:23:12] So the deadline is 14th of October

[00:23:15] When will you announce who got in

[00:23:17] And who didn't

[00:23:19] So far away

[00:23:20] Not till next year April

[00:23:22] 27th of March

[00:23:23] We have a launch party

[00:23:25] But that's because the recruitment has to be super rigorous

[00:23:28] We go through two different stages

[00:23:31] Where you are

[00:23:33] Assess on paper

[00:23:34] And then you're assessed in person

[00:23:36] Throwing interview

[00:23:37] And in between that you looked out

[00:23:39] Through health inequalities

[00:23:40] People are eating

[00:23:40] And net zero lens as well as nice

[00:23:43] So there's a lot of hope to jump through

[00:23:44] And the reason why people trust us

[00:23:46] Is because people have a lot of hope to jump through

[00:23:48] So it's really important to make sure

[00:23:50] That every means doing what they need to do

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